Should I Stop Getting Reviews For My GMB After I Hit My Target Number? – 97

Transcript for Should I Stop Getting Reviews For My GMB After I Hit My Target Number? – 97;

Caleb Baumgartner: Welcome to another episode Of Local SEO Tactics, where we bring you tips and tricks to get found online. I am producer Caleb Baumgartner. In today’s episode we discuss getting reviews for your business. Is there such a thing as enough reviews? When you reach a certain threshold, can you divert your energy elsewhere? Jesse, Sue and Bob give you the low down on the importance of reviews to your business. If you have any questions, don’t forget to visit us at localseotactics.com/questions and let us know. Thanks for listening and enjoy the show.

Jesse Dolan: Welcome back to local SEO Tactics, where we bring you tips and tricks to get found online. I’m your host Jesse Dolan, joined here with Sue Ginsburg.

Sue Ginsburg: Hello.

Jesse Dolan: And Sue I think Bob… We just had a little technical pre-meeting before we hit record here, Bob should be jumping in. He’s kind of en route back to his recording studio, air quotes for everybody that’s watching the video. So, we’re going to get joined by Bob, probably mid episode here. So, if somebody hears the zoom dinging in the background here as you’re listening, that’d be your cue that the Bob’s jumping in. But on air meeting aside, Sue I’ve seen this a few times. Is this Austin? This is Austin in the background, right?

Sue Ginsburg: This is Austin, Texas.

Jesse Dolan: Picking up on this.

Sue Ginsburg: That’s right, very good. And the reason we’re in Austin today is, we are going to discuss a listener and client question, who is based right here in Austin, Texas. So…

Jesse Dolan:Do we have a ton of business in Austin? Because I know you’ve been, as you say, pandemicking there, just interfacing with a lot of clients. This is just the luck of the draw, it’s been a Texas Fest.

Sue Ginsburg: It’s a hopping city here, everybody wants to be found online, lots of tech businesses that are deep in their geek technology, but that doesn’t mean they know how to be found online. So, here we are, right here in the heart of Texas, as they say.

Jesse Dolan: Indeed.

Sue Ginsburg: So our listener and client question today is, once you have a lot of reviews, can you stop automated review requests and divert marketing funds elsewhere? And then the second part of that is, how does the toggle to filter review ratings affect search? Which is a, I understand, somewhat new feature. And so that’s what we’ll talk about. The quote of the day today is a quote from PT Barnum famed circus entrepreneur, I guess he might be called. “Comfort is the enemy of progress”. And I think we can all relate to that in one way or another.

Jesse Dolan: I like it.

Sue Ginsburg: Today’s podcast, what I want to do is; demonstrate the importance of reviews for both your customers and leads and Google, two different audiences that you have there. What is the best way to work with reviews? Does it have to be continuous? Is really her question, and what gets in the way of this?

Most satisfied customers are happy to submit a review, if it is easy. We’ve all been in the situation where somebody says, hey, thanks for your business. Thanks for complimenting us. Would you mind posting a review? And it’s like, yeah, how do I do that? Well, you got to do this and then you go here and here we’ll direct you here. And it’s like, well, way too many steps for me to do, make it easy for me. And then I’ll do it. And that’s what the automated review request programs do. It makes it easy for them. Click here, boom, post. And that’s why it helps get you more reviews. So the plan is getting reviews continuously is important.
Keeping those average ratings high is important. If you can get them on your own, do it. If you can’t then look at one of these automated review request programs. We have evaluated many of them, work with one that we think is the simplest, the best, the easiest. And why do you want to do that? Because you want to get more reviews, more engagement with customers, more reviews, impact on SEO and better visibility.

So this question came up from a client of ours, very, very successful client. Austin-based, wonderful and talented client, went from zero to 71 reviews in six months. And there are not enough hours in the day for all the people who want appointments with her. They’re all five stars except one four star, which was very specific to them. But average rating is five. All glowing reviews, check it out. You can see for yourself humandesignconsultations.com, and they are now launching a new website with us, looking at their marketing investment to get found online with the new website, and asked about stopping reviews for a few months so they could divert their marketing investment elsewhere.

So Jesse, as the SEO pro, what can you tell us? What, what’s your thinking on that?

Jesse Dolan: We’ll take the long way around as I often do, if anybody’s listening to this show for a while, I usually have no problem talking. So first I want to say, your quote, could you say that quote again? The quote of the day, one more time.

Sue Ginsburg: It is…

Jesse Dolan: Sorry to put you on the spot.

Sue Ginsburg: Comfort is the enemy of progress. Comfort is the enemy of progress.

Jesse Dolan: I love that. There’s two things that I really carry with me a lot. One is that pops up on my Facebook feed like once a year. I don’t know if he said it, but Donald Glover of Community, talented comedian also singer, if you will, performer, Childish Gambino, right? If anybody knows who he is, you’ll know what I’m talking about, but there’s this photo that I caught from somebody or a meme online. It’s a picture of him again. I don’t know if he’s responsible for just him in the background, but it says, “if it makes you uncomfortable, you’re doing it right”. And I really love that. It’s the same kind of essence there. And I think to succeed, you kind of have to be uncomfortable, right? You have to keep pushing yourself there. And also I say this about my wife all the time, shout out to her love of my life, Tanya.

I always tell people she makes me uncomfortable. Right? And they’re like, well, that’s kind of weird. How’s that good? And I’m like, no, like she doesn’t let me settle. Like she expects more. Right. And this isn’t in a negative way, but like, we want to achieve, we want to succeed. And I just wonder, what my path would have been like without somebody like that pushing, right? Me and wanting… Not that we’re selfish or materialistic, quite the opposite, but just more of in general, not being comfortable, resting on your laurels right? And so I always try to frame it up like that in a very positive way. Even it doesn’t come across like that. So I love that message. And I think, as you’re saying this, for me, maybe this is kind of weird, this really does tie into reviews for your business, believe it or not.

Bob and I have done a number of episodes where you’re like, how does that tie in? Bob and I had done a number of episodes on getting reviews, how to get more reviews as we talk about a review automation extensively on some episodes. So we won’t dive into all that right here, but check out the show notes, if you want to get a deep dive, but really at the end of the day, the point I’m trying to make here is asking for reviews. It’s uncomfortable, right? Anybody can do like the Walgreens or CVS back of the receipt. Hey, leave, leave us a review, take this survey. And that just doesn’t work at least at scale, you’re going to get such a small percentage of people actually taking you up on that to really get reviews. You have to be a little bit uncomfortable, a little bit forceful.

Something we always say is, if you can ask in person, for sure, ask in person, right? That’s like your highest percentage of getting reviews as to literally ask somebody face to face. Supplement that with an automated review program, right? Or if you’re going to skip the whole uncomfortable face-to-face review part, absolutely use an automated program. The benefit of an automated program is going to be, it’s not just a one-shot deal, right? In addition to saving you time, right? By having to do this yourself manually, a big thing that you usually get with an automated review system is it’s going to ask multiple times. So Sue, if you patronized us, we’d be asking you to leave a review. We’d say, how was your experience? Would you mind sharing your story or give us a testimonial, whatever it is online. And there’s a couple of cool things that happen here when you use something automated.

One, we want to push Google reviews for SEO reasons, which I’ll kind of touch on in a second here. Google reviews are great, but hey, getting a review on Facebook or depending on your niche, you have TripAdvisor, MapQuest, whatever, anywhere you can get reviews, it’s good to get them. Google will understand. Even if it’s not a review on Google, that you’re getting reviews on, let’s say Yelp or Facebook or whatever, and that still helps your authority and your trust for a business. So leveraging an automated review system will allow you to ask for a review and make it easy, easy for the person to access whatever portal that they want. That’s kind of part of the setup is you say, leave us a review here, pick from these five places that we get reviews on, whatever works best for you. Secondly, is the intelligence of the follow-up.

So again, Sue, if you patronize us and I send you an email, Hey, would love to get a review from you or whatever it might say, if you don’t open that, or even if you open it and just never do anything. If I was doing this process manually, I’d probably be done. I would just shoot you the one email and be like, I don’t want to bug her. Maybe she left her review. Maybe she didn’t, it’s kind of a one-shot deal, but with an automated system, you can follow up again with intelligence. Like if Sue opened the email, but didn’t click on it. I’ll send her another one in three days with a reminder. And if she’s still doesn’t take action, I’ll send another one in seven days and 11 days or whatever kind of interval that you want. But the point is that you can build in that segmentation on those actions.

Like if Sue opened the email, but didn’t take action, I’ll send her this message. If Sue didn’t even open the email, maybe there’s a different message that you want to send, so you can kind of customize it. And that’s where, and then also tap them on the shoulder, multiple times. And that’s where the automation really gets you more reviews. Because it’s not that people don’t want to. It’s usually time on the end-user side, right? The end customer side. It’s time. Do I want to, once I get home from Walgreens, do I want to take my receipt, go to my computer, punch in their website and leave a review? Probably not. But if I got something on my phone, whether it be an email or, most programs, just like one that we represent, you can send it via text or SMS.

If I’m getting alerted and I just got to click something and now just start typing in my review. I am so much more apt to take action on that. Especially if I had a good service with the vendor or the service provider, right? So if you can make it easier for me as a user, I’m going to leave your review. If you can ask me multiple times, because maybe I forgot, or I was busy. Maybe your first request hit me at the wrong time, you’re increasing your odds there. So in general, getting reviews is a wonderful thing. It’s going to impact your SEO, not directly, it’s not a direct ranking factor, but it is like a behavior in a user experience factor where let’s just say in the Google Business Profile three pack, right? Everybody, probably listening, knows what we’re talking about. The mat pack, the three pack.

We’ve explained it before. If you’re the third position on a search, but you have a better review score or more number of total ratings than the second and the first place people, you’re probably going to get that click. And if that happens over time, what Google’s going to do is say, well, we’ve been serving up this company as the number three results, but they’re getting all the clicks, people keep skipping over them. You’ll bump up the number one. Let’s just say right, just for simplicity’s sake. So the number of reviews you got, didn’t move your ranking. But the number of reviews you got impacted the user behavior, which then impacted your ranking, right? So it is a factor in your ranking in that way. So getting reviews is amazing. Using an automated system really helps you get more reviews for all the reasons we just mentioned.

And then back to the heart of your question. Should I stop? Once I get a number of reviews, should I stop? Heck no, never, ever, never, ever stop. This is something where you don’t just kind of reach this ultimate goal. Your competitors are getting more reviews, right? There’s… There may be somebody new to town that’s going to jump in. And before you know it, they have as many reviews as you do, right? Or things like that, the rankings, so even if somebody doesn’t have more reviews or as many reviews as you, maybe they do something on their SEO, they suddenly outrank you. It’s going to be even more important that you keep getting more reviews to flip that back based on the behaviors that we just talked about, the investment into a review… Automated review application is not that much for most businesses, getting one new client a month, probably more than pays for the automation of it all.

With that automation, we’re not… In that scenario, not even talking about how much time you’re saving personally, right? And the actual cost savings or for your valuable time. We’re just talking about like the ROI and getting a new client because what the impact was. Also if you’re using some kind of automation for getting reviews, it probably somehow ties into either showing those reviews automatically on your website, or maybe posting a five-star review to Facebook automatically. So there’s other things it does to even leverage it for whatever the nominal price is. So I wouldn’t ever look at it… If you can continue to get reviews at whatever pace you were getting them at, I wouldn’t look at it as something to cut from the budget like you’ve arrived. I would look at it as something to say, you know what, to be the lead dog, excuse me, we’re going to stay out front and we’re going to make it so nobody can ever catch up.

I would not want to stop that unless there were some crazy circumstance, I guess here where that nominal amount of money really was going to make or break their budget for the month. But again, that’s… for the prices we’re talking here, that’s probably not the case. So I wouldn’t stop it. I wouldn’t divest from any automation helped you to reach that goal.

And back to your example for this client, getting up to, into the seventies, again, especially if… If you’re… let’s say, if you’re a restaurant where you’re serving dozens or even a hundred customers per day, you can get way more reviews than that, right? If this was a client that maybe serves one or two customers per day, and their velocity takes them to 70, are they going to get, 70 every month? Maybe not. But just that continual drip, it shows that you’re active. Sounds like a lot of great social reputation to Google and everybody else. In addition to all those other factors that we said there. Now that ties into something else that you’re saying too, and I’m going to jump over and share my screen.

So if you’re listening on the podcast, this is something that you’re going to want to check out on the video version here, too. If I can get the green share button, pop up… There you go.

You’re asking about the review toggle. That’s kind of a newish feature. I should have grabbed a date. It was somewhere in the last few weeks, if not a month or two, Sue, that this was rolled out by Google. And it should be pretty much visible to everybody now. Whenever they release things like this, it starts out in a certain market or a certain niche. And as they fine tune it they really roll it out. So this should be something everybody can kind of test and see themselves if you’re not watching this on the screen here.

So you do a Google search. I just did auto repair Minneapolis kind of an example we use all the time. This is… Sounds like we got Bob jumping in here. That was the ding for the entrance. Hey Bob, how’s it going?

Bob: Sorry. I’m late guys.

Jesse Dolan: Nope. Everybody’s been expecting you. The thousands of people tuned in right now, have just been awaiting the zoom ding.

Bob: God help them.

Jesse Dolan: So we’re just wrapping up this part here. Bob, I’m sharing my screen. We were talking about reviews, the importance of some automation. And now here, Sue was asking us a question about this filter by number of reviews here we’re getting into. So, reviews have always been important, will continue to be important. Don’t ever stop getting them, right? For whatever your methods are. This is a new enhancement that’s been rolled out recently by Google. That further shows how important reviews are, right? Not only has Google allowed us this Google My Business profile to collect reviews, show them publicly. And then this is the most prominent area in local search, right? The map pack clearly displaying the reviews, right? So they’re already shown in these ways to be very important by Google. Now they’ve added this feature. You can sort by ratings, right? So again, the example Auto Repair Minneapolis for everybody that’s watching on the video, but the top, we see three listings.

This Nelson’s auto repair… has three locations here, they’re doing something really good for their SEO. Just as a side note, shout out to Nelson’s here. So we can see right here, this little thing, if I click it, kind of like Amazon or any other e-commerce site where you might be familiar with, you can now filter out. If you only wanted to see people, let’s see here. Nelson’s not the best example. Let’s just pretend if this was like a 4.2, you can choose this right here. I only want to see people that have a rating of 4.5 and up, you can see it switches over to the map view. And now it’s showing Google My Business listings still for that same search that would trigger for Auto Repair Minneapolis. But we’re only looking at ratings that are 4.5 or better.

There is another one here, ours. You can see, if you’re looking to maybe… Hey, I’m going to be in town next Tuesday, or I should say this Thursday, or they open that day. So you can also check hours right next to ratings. You can see there’s the two little bubbles there, but for sure, that’s the thing we’re talking about here is the ratings.

This just underscores how important it is, right? If Google is not only going to give you all this awesomeness, when it comes to reviews and the public facing nature of them. Now they’re giving you the ability to sort the Google My Business listings based on reviews and filter out the lower ones. You want to keep getting reviews, right? Your competitors, aren’t going to stop. You shouldn’t stop. Keep trying to get even more. Five star reviews more than anything, right? But yeah, I hope that answers your question, Sue, on both fronts about the automation, and then, what is that sorting feature now on Google My Business for the reviews and why is it important more than ever? And who knows what’s next, there is nothing indicating right now that we should not be focused on reviews, right? Everything’s pointing towards continued, if not more focused than ever before. So…

Sue Ginsburg: Well, great insight and great information that you shared. I’d like to add a few other things, even further underscoring the importance of reviews. You can put them on your website, which we all know when we’re looking at a website, how great is it to see actual other customer reviews, because we look at them, we as customers, we all know how important they are, because when we’re looking for something online, we read them. I know I always read the really good ones. And I’ll also look for negative ones to see what are the negative ones about, and does that apply to me, should that affect whether I buy this or not? We all have that experience. It’s also a really good business development opportunity because when you’re reaching out to a satisfied customer and saying, hey, thanks for your business. We’d really appreciate you posting a review.

It’s a very positive interaction, as we say, in marketing with them. And it’s just a reminder like, hey, I do like this business, let me write this then. Oh, I’m glad they asked me, they must value my opinion. Also, one thing that you didn’t mention, Jesse, is the opportunity to reply, to reviews. If it’s a pleasant review, a positive review, it’s a pleasant surprise to the person who wrote it. Like, hey, the business’s thanking me for this review. That’s super nice. And if you do get a negative review, we urge you to take the opportunity to look into the situation, is what they said, valid, legit? It could uncover a process issue that you have in your own business… for one thing. And secondly, once you have looked into it, respond to that customer, you can likely, if you can figure out who it is by what they left in the review or their name, contact them, email them, call them, get ahold of them, tell them you’re sorry.

Explain your side of the story. Talk it through them… Talk it through with them, and if at all possible resolve it, which is a great thing anyway. Now you have a satisfied customer, but again, a couple of things that that does. They could possibly go in and change their review. You as a reviewer can always go back in, add to the comments you put, change it from however many stars you gave it one or two to a four or five, which of course is phenomenal now you have a positive review, but also, more than that even, there’s a statistic that shows that if your customers are happy with your service, your products, whatever they will tell four other people, hey, you want to know where to get your next water heater? Let me tell you about my experience or whatever it is.

If they’re unhappy, they will tell nine people, want me to tell you about where never to go, whatever. And if they are unhappy and the business turned it around, resolved it, and now they are a satisfied customer. They will tell 11 to 13 people. And I think we’ve all experienced that too. It’s like, wow, I had this bad experience and I thought they were ripping me off. And then I was contacted by the business owner. He talked to me about it. He explained it. He asked me, he listened to me. Nobody does that. So it’s such a great experience that they tell a lot more people. And those are all super, super good things.

Jesse Dolan: I think some of that, Sue, ties back into, on the front side, the whole, uncomfortable…

Sue Ginsburg: Yeah. Absolutely.

Jesse Dolan: Statements. There’s something that’s said in the sphere of reviews here for the industry. And that’s basically; if you really want to know how to get more reviews, have a kick-ass business, right. And in a roundabout way, asking for more reviews, will uncover some uncomfortable aspects of your business when you get those negative reviews. But that also gives you, like you said, that great insight to what is wrong. Fixing those wrongs. Now you’re a better… Now you are a kick-ass business. Because you keep fixing those things. You’re going to turn those upset customers into your biggest champions. You’re going to make sure you solve that thing for everybody else going forward to just have more positivity.

It can be uncomfortable asking for reviews, just from a face-to-face scripted nature of it. It can also be uncomfortable as a business entity to be exposing yourself, to get those opinions and feedbacks. But it’s the truth at the end of the day, right? And better to have that stuff coming at you and pivot, and adapt, and improve, than to just sweep it under the rug and pretend everything’s fine. Because you’re just going to be stagnant then, right? So, great points.

Sue Ginsburg: In my experience, talking to businesses about why don’t you ask for reviews at the end of a transaction or every case or whatever it is. It’s all about not wanting to hear what you don’t know what they’re going to say. Just like you said, Jesse, and what blows me away is, okay, so you’re telling me, you would rather not know that a client or a customer has an issue with your business, than know about it, have the opportunity to address and resolve it and keep that client. Why wouldn’t you do that?

Jesse Dolan: Yep.

Bob: Yeah. And I would throw out, Sue, too, is… and this can be dangerous, but depending on what it is you’re doing, I would throw out at the beginning of the relationship, if you’re going to engage with somebody, for whatever service it is, let’s say you’re building a deck. I would say to them, look, I’ve been building decks for 10 years and we’re, we’re just in a different age. Our, goal with Bob’s deck service is to provide you a five-star service. And when we’re done, if we haven’t provided that five-star service, you got to tell me so we can correct it. But then I’m going to ask you for a five star review, if that’s okay. Is that okay with you?

So if you set that expectation up front and it’s a little unusual, it’s kind of like going to a restaurant and having to waiter say, look, I’m expecting to tip, 20% of what you folks buy. And by the way, if at any point in time, I’m not serving you, you got to let me know, but let’s be upfront, at the end of that deal I want a 20%, it’s a bit forward, but it’s, in some ways, it’s the way it’s world we live in right now.

And just… how you spend that or how you present that is going to be the art. It’s going to be what you’re going to have to fail and succeed at. But if you can do it, it makes the whole review process a little easier because then everybody’s expectations, your expectation as a business owner is to provide that level of service. And then subsequently, you’re asking them for a nice review, not a four star, it’s either an all or nothing, in my opinion.

If we can’t give you that five star review, then we need to solve the problem. And then you can leave us a five star review. Because four stars, three stars obviously is kind of a underhanded way of saying… Not underhanded, but it’s a subtle way of saying you didn’t provide the level of service. So that’s my two cents, is if you can get that on the front side and experiment with that, and then teach your people, your team who you’re working with to do that, it can be a wonderful thing.

Jesse Dolan: Totally. I think Sue, I don’t know if you’re going to say this as part of your closing, but I just throw it out there for everybody listening too. You mentioned earlier, yeah, we have a product for the automated review part, right? If anybody wants to explore that, learn more, just reach out to us, but also some of these things, and again, we’ll link to some of our previous shows that dive into this. If you want coaching for your team to do some of these things like Bob’s talking about, to bring a third party in, we’ve done that for clients and it’s effective. Sometimes as you as the business owner, the sales manager or whatever your role is, if you’re trying to get your team motivated to get more reviews, they’ll just be like, all right, here’s the thing of the month we’re doing, I guess, right?

Let’s just kind of let this wash over, and next month we won’t worry about it anymore. So if you kind of need a little more horsepower or a little more, kind of investment for an outside party to come in and say, hey, we’re going to get taught how to get reviews, how to leverage some in-person stuff, some scripting, like Bob’s saying some software tools to get this done. This is a major goal for us. We do that kind of stuff to not, to not to pitch ourselves in this at the end of the day, but it’s a major thing. And like we’d said earlier with some of the screen-sharing, it’s not slowing down. If anything, Google’s making it more prominent and more of a deciding factor for consumers out there. And you’ve got to keep this as one of your main focuses and sometimes you have to invest into it. So, all right.
I think that was all dang good for everybody listening, Bob, you missed some million dollar nuggets on the front side. We’ll catch up later, but no. It’s stuff you all know, like whether… If it’s GMBs or reviews you and I talk extensively and passionately. So a lot of that same stuff there, but any closing thoughts, Sue?

Sue Ginsburg: Yes. I think I’ll say if you remember one thing and one thing only make sure you get reviews from your customers. If you can do it on your own. Great, do it. We know from experience that most businesses, this is outside their comfort zone and there are automated programs that will help you do that. It’s a very positive thing. And if you’re not getting them on your own, for whatever reason, highly recommend, considering one of those programs, they make it easy for you and easy for your customer, which again, we’re all customers someplace, and we want it to be easy and convenient, then we’ll do it. Really important thing to do. And I think you can tell, we all feel very strongly about that. Back to the quote of the day, which Bob you’ll love this, comfort is the enemy of progress, PT, Barnum. And the corollary to that. I think this was Tony Robbins. If it wasn’t him, it could have been him. Success lies just beyond the edge of your comfort zone. And that’s what we’re talking about here.

Bob: Indeed, indeed. Perfect.

Jesse Dolan: All right. So hopefully everybody listening and watching. If you checked out some of the screen-sharing there, hopefully it helps you out. If you’ve got a question you want us to address on the show, a topic, we’d love to hear it go to localseotactics.com, go down to the bottom left corner, click on the button for submit a question and… We’re making a change. Sue had pointed this out in the conversation last week. The way we have originally had this is submit a question. And then if you want to leave a voicemail, we’ll play it on the show. And I think that’s kind of disguising that for some people like first, you had to type in your question. So by the time this episode airs, this change will be live. You’ll see a phone number listed right there. Call that phone number, leave your question.

If you do, there’s going to be another button for you to send us your information. Cause we’re going to want to send you off a T-shirt for throwing your voice on there. Otherwise, if you still just want to type it in and send it in, you can do that as well. So, localseotactics.com, bottom left corner, click submit a question and we’d love to know what’s on your mind. What’s stuck in your crop. It’s a big thing like this with reviews and multifaceted, or if it’s just one little thing that you’re stuck on, it doesn’t matter how big or small it is. Like we’ve said before, if you’re having a challenge, somebody else is too, and we’re here to help you out. So hopefully that’s good for everybody. Go ahead Sue, you had something else?

Sue Ginsburg: I just thought of something. Can you put a link in the show notes to make it easy for people to leave us a review… while we’re on the topic?

Jesse Dolan: I would say we can throw one in there, but as a reminder to everybody, just scroll down a little past the show notes at the bottom of every, literally every single page on the localseotactics website, there’s a button for reviews, right? For the same thing, absolutely. Absolutely, we would love to get a review from you. This episode that we’re doing a few here Sue, we don’t read a review, but I think everybody you, now that we’re doing two a week, everybody knows we love reading those reviews and giving a shout out to everybody, right? So great question and great point to wrap it all up. All right. That does it for this episode. Hopefully everybody got some benefit from it. Catch you on the next show.

Bob: Bye to all.

Sue Ginsburg: See you.