Transcript for Episode 94 –
Caleb Baumgartner: Welcome to Local SEO Tactics, where we bring you tips and tricks to get found online. I am producer Caleb Baumgartner, and in this episode, Bob and Jesse dig into the upcoming Google page experience update. You have a website, you fought for SEO gains, but will this change affect them? Bob and Jesse walk you through some of those changes, what they mean and how to prepare for those changes to maintain your page ranking. Thank you for listening and enjoy the show.
Jesse Dolan: Welcome back to Local SEO Tactics, where we bring you tips and tricks to get found online. I’m your host, Jesse Dolan, here with Mr. Bob Brennan.
Bob Brennan: Howdy.
Jesse Dolan: We’re going to talk snazzy about SEO. I haven’t used the word snazzy in a number of episodes. It’s time to bring it back. What we’re going to be talking about today, so recording this, here we are, April 15th. Coming up next month, so somewhere in the next two to four or five weeks is an impending update that Google has kind of made everybody aware of for a long time now. We’re going to talk a little bit about it, maybe dispel some of the fear and anxiety, but also point out what the update’s about and what you should be focusing on. It’s for the Google page experience update that’s coming out. So we’re going to talk about that. Before we get into that, just a couple quick housekeeping deals. Number one, if you haven’t used our free instant SEO audit tool, go ahead and do that. Go on at the localseotactics.com. Top right corner, look for the yellow button.
What that’s going to do is you punch in your keyword and the page that you’re looking to optimize, or get graded is another way to talk about it, and that’s going to spit out a report in a PDF form. That’s going to show you what’s good and what’s bad with your website, right? And what do you got to do to optimize this for that keyword. You can run your webpage through there. I said website a second ago, too. It’s page by page here, just to be clear. So submit your page, submit your keyword. It will give you the report. You can do pages on your website. You can run competitor’s pages to reverse engineer them. Completely free. Use it as often as you want. LocalSEOtactics.com, top right corner, instant SEO audit. Secondly, we have Terry Samuels coming on to talk about schema again. Unfortunately we had to reschedule. I don’t if everybody can see my hair here.
If you’re listening on audio, definitely check out the YouTube channel. I’ve got some good quarantine hair and I call it a beard, my family calls it a mistake, growing out of my chinny. The funny part is they always make fun of me, because I shave right here. Right? I got this little weird goatee thing going, but I got made fun of. I can grow hair here. I just shave it. It’s this intentional, you know what I mean? And I don’t let it get long because I trim it. If I wanted a long goatee, I think I could grow. I guess I’ve never tried. So I shouldn’t commit here because it is a pretty sad goatee. But at any rate, the point is is Terry Samuels was scheduled to do an interview with us last week, but unfortunately my family here we’re in lockdown for COVID. We have COVID in the family, so we’re in quarantine and with the household, it just wasn’t a good setting.
So coming up here, though, we are going to interview Terry Samuels again, for another episode on schema. We’re going to be doing a number of these with Terry. And what we’re looking for is if you have any questions about schema, if you haven’t checked it out, we had a two-part episode with Terry, I should say a two part interview with Terry talking about schema, like an overview. What is it, why is it, things like that. But now we’re going to start diving into more applying schema, developing schema, some of the more technical sides of it. Schema is an extremely important part of SEO nowadays, helps Google other search engines and web entities understand what your site is about. Little things like if you ever do a Google search and look, they’re called site links, so you’ll see results at the top of the page.
I should have probably had an example loaded up here, but you might have the website at the top. And then it’s got a couple links to that same website, right on the top of Google. That’s triggered by schema, things like that. So schema is very, very important not only for Google to understand what you do, who you are, what you offer and a lot of SEO trickery, it also enables things like that to be shown on the Google SERP, search engine result page. So schema is very important, very a big part of SEO moving forward. Unfortunately, it’s also very mysterious for a lot of us, right? We can all log into WordPress, manipulate our page, change things on page, but to sit down and write schema, which is essentially a language and a code, it can be a bit foreign and mysterious. Terry Samuels is an expert in this. He’s a guru in this. We look to him for a lot of support, guidance and counsel in doing this.
He’s just one of the best. And he’s jumping back on to field your questions and talk about schema. So if you’ve got a question, whether it be basic or advanced, we want to hear it. We want to throw it at Terry and we want to have him share that expertise to answer your question for all of us. If you go onto localSEOtactics.com, go down to the bottom and submit a question. You can do it that way. Or if you can remember this, I don’t think it’s linked in there, but localSEOtactics.com/schema, that’ll get you to a form as well to submit a question for that. And yeah, we’re excited to get Terry back on for one of many more appearances to talk about this very important topic.
Bob Brennan: Yeah, he’s helped us out in a couple of big ways. So he’s saved a couple sites that were struggling.
Jesse Dolan: Yeah, he is the master at doing this. And man, it’s such a steep learning curve for doing this stuff too. Right? Don’t just start Googling things and trying to figure this out. Tap in through this to somebody like Terry to get questions. It’s a complicated topic. So, all right. So check out the free audit tool. Send us your question for Terry so we can kind of help everybody out on that. And I look forward to talking with him more as we reschedule and get my haircut at some future point. All right, let’s get into the topic here, Bob, for today. We’re talking about this Google page experience update. A lot of people are losing their mind, getting stressed out. If you pay attention to the, whether they be different Facebook groups for SEO, industry articles, things like that, depending who you talk to, the sky is falling. Be prepared. Your site’s going to tank come May 15th or whatever.
So I guess the first thing we want to talk about, you and I were talking kind of before this, is none of this is ever like dramatic, right? If you have something that’s going to be applied to all websites, it’s a ranking and Google’s a competition, right? So there’s an order. There’s a first place and there’s a last place, right? Google’s not just going to erase half of the websites. Right? They may change the order. You may see some changes in your ranking, but they’re not just going to erase a bunch of websites, right? So the sky is definitely not falling.
Bob Brennan: Right.
Jesse Dolan: I’ll walk through some of the technical, according to Google, what this means for page experience update. But like we were just saying, let this pan out, right? Don’t lose sleep over the next 30 days thinking you got to fine tune your website. This change will happen. You can rebound from it if you do get hit, you know what I mean? It’s not irrecoverable by any means.
Bob Brennan: It really, I mean, when you look at it, I think, if you can think of Google as a big mall, right, and you have all these merchants in there. We’ve all seen malls that have kind of gone downhill and you’ve got the rent starts to drop. And you’ve got people that are selling, not to pick on anybody, but carpet velvet Elvis carpets or just weird stuff, right, that where a more upscale mall has nationally recognized brands. They have standards, they have beautiful. It’s just a beautiful-
Jesse Dolan: Experience.
Bob Brennan: Yeah. Experience. It’s just sharp looking, building material that they’ve used for the mall. And it’s just a higher standards and higher cleaner look. It’s laid out wonderfully. The food courts are laid out properly and everything is just, the layout is good. And so the atmosphere is good, which in turn encourages commerce, right, and everything else. And that’s kind of the way you need to look at it is these improvements, although frustrating maybe at times because nobody wants to go out and paint their mall or their store or do whatever, but I’m not drinking the Google Kool-Aid, but I’m just saying that this, you got to understand the mindset of Google and why they’re doing what they’re doing. And once you kind of get that, then you shouldn’t be afraid of these updates. They’re just really designed to make the mall, so to speak, a better place for everybody to find each other and do business.
Jesse Dolan: It’s basically another factor. So established ones by Google. Let me refer to my list so I can read it properly here. We’ve got mobile security, which we’ve talked about before. Your site has to be secure. That’s known. That was a thing that they announced and everybody had to adapt. Being responsive, mobile friendly, things like that, have to be part of your website strategy now. Otherwise, like you’re saying, you’re just going to be this old decrepit website that nobody’s going to visit anyways. And then this inter-statial, inter-sital, depends on who you talk to how you’re going to pronounce it, guidelines, which is basically like pop-ups. Right? If you have a website now where, as soon as you get there, there’s five different popups and you can’t close it and it’s just horrible, Google’s aware of that too and they’re pushing you down the rankings, right, just as if you were an insecure site or if you were not a mobile friendly site.
This page experience update really just builds on that, like you were saying, to make sure they’re providing a better mall. We take it for granted sometimes what is Google? And we like to make fun of it for the all knowing Google, the evil Google, everything else. But it’s quite amazing. There is billions, maybe even trillions now, web pages it has indexed. You, I, anybody, we can sit down and we can type in a few words into the Google search engine. In a fraction of a second, it gives us the top 10 results of all the web pages in the world, guessing by that one, two or three words we typed in, what we were looking for and dang it if it’s not usually right, somewhere in those first few links, for matching you with what you were looking for. Pretty amazing. Now what they’re doing is saying, “All right, we’re going to make sure now when we do all that, we give you websites that you’re going to like. We’re going to make sure that you’re finding nice stores in a nice mall, not something you’re scared of or worried about.” Right?
Google can do this in a couple of ways. One, it can evaluate websites. It can crawl a website and see what’s on it, what it is, what it’s made of what the experience is, with its Google bot within reason and also has other metrics like bounce rates and if somebody does a Google search for red balloons and clicks on the first website, backs out because it wasn’t appropriate for what they were looking for and then they come back and they click on the second website listed by Google, Google can see that too. They know that their first result that they presented, that they chose of all the billions of websites, must not be proper because people keep clicking on the first one, coming back to Google and clicking on the second one. They see those behaviors as well, right? So not only can they crawl their web, I’m sorry, not only can they crawl your website within their website, which is Google, they can see those behaviors.
These things help them understand really what’s a good site and what’s a bad site. For this particular update, there’s a few new terms that they’ve thrown out, that the industry has kind of developed if you will, however you want to phrase that up, that we want to cover because if you’re sitting there going, “Okay, that’s all good. So you’re basically telling me that I shouldn’t freak out about this page experience update, but I should do some things according to the guidelines,” let’s get into some of those guidelines here. So like I just said earlier, getting a little technical here, this is really building on an overall experience update they’ve been doing for years. They want to make sure if they’re going to be recommending websites to you, not only is it mobile responsive and safe and not full of pop-ups, now they’ve got more things that they’re hoping that websites are for overall best practices.
So let’s talk about these. So some things they’re going to be looking for here are continued optimization for mobile and we mean mobile usage. So Bob, we did an episode, a number back, where it was like, “Check your website on mobile, too.” Right? If buttons are too close together and you can’t hit them with your big fat sausage finger, right, things like that. Not just, when we say mobile optimized, anybody’s been doing this for a while, they may think of, “Well, my site will render on desktop and then automatically reposition and change for mobile.” Yeah, that’s important. That’s the mobile responsive, but mobile friendly and mobile optimized means you can navigate and get what you need off a website in mobile. Right? It’s big enough to read, the buttons are clickable, things like that.
Bob Brennan: And taking action, there was a site that we did that I have talked to you about at some point, but all our sites are set up for this where, when you’re on it and the phone button, I’m sorry, either the phone button or the actual phone number you click on, dials and transitions to your phone. That’s a must. When I go on a site and it doesn’t have that, I get frustrated. But then I also say, “Well, they’re living 10 years ago because that’s what everybody expects.” I’m in my fifties. So I’m not on the cutting edge of technology by any means, but anybody 30 years or younger than me is expecting those things. And it’s not a complete deal killer, but it just impedes your ability to do business.
So again, if you’re back at the mall and you’ve got 10 pop-ups and we’ll call them wiggly guys that you blow air through that’s in front of your doorway, right, and nobody can get into your store because the wiggly guys are in your way. Well, Google’s saying, “No, no, no, we don’t want that. We want…” So back to your mobile optimization. Yes, it’s been the future for five years now. If you’re not aware of that, Lord help you. You need to fix that problem now.
Jesse Dolan: Alert the media. People use smartphones for web searches. Right?
Bob Brennan: Right.
Jesse Dolan: So along with that, one of the other factors here that’s part of this page experience update is improving page speed. Google previously has come out and said, “Page speed is a ranking factor.” All things being equal. Well, a fast website is going to rank over a slow website because again, same thing here, whether it’s wiggly guys or pop-ups or whatever, if you click on a result and it’s loading and it’s loading and we’ve got like two or three seconds here before we’re getting frustrated. Actually got a stat here I should read. This was from Search Engine Watch. We didn’t come up with this or do this study. I’m just stealing their infographic. Some pretty cool stats here. As page load times increase, so does bounce rate, which makes sense, like we just said. The longer it takes to load, the more likely you are to back out and go to the next one.
One to three seconds of loading time means you might be getting 32% of people bouncing out, right, if it’s taking longer than within one to three seconds. If you’re up into that one to five second range, it increases to potentially 90% of your traffic is bouncing out. We have short attention spans, right? If that site isn’t loading, and this doesn’t mean like completely, fully loaded, it just means I click on Google, my page is loading and I’m starting to see the page now. I think we’ve been on websites where you just see the white background and it says it’s loading, right? If you’re into that three to five second range for your website, you’re probably losing a lot of traffic. So just kind of resetting, we’re talking about mobile optimization, mobile experience optimization, improving your page speeds, which we’re not going to get super deep in this episode.
We’re going to parse out some of these details into other episodes later that get deeper into these topics. But in general, you want to optimize your page speed, make it load fast, make sure your images are optimized. We were talking with Sue before on an episode for web hosting, make sure you have a fast web host. Things that impact speed, make sure you’re addressing them. Another thing, which is a little bit foreign for people to kind of grasp is the, which is part of this page experience update, CTAs or call to actions. This gets into a little bit more of not quite as tangible experience with air quotes here. My fingers for those of you on video, I’m sorry, those of you on audio, getting the visual, switch over to video, call to action is the intent of your page, right? If you’re searching for red balloons, I mean, what are you looking to do?
Buy them, rent them, lease them, whatever it is, your page should have that call to action. Not just, yep, you landed on the red balloon page. What’s next? And us as business owners, marketing directors, whatever our jobs titles are listening here, your page should have that intent, that call to action. You should be deciding what the journey is for your users, for your clients, on the website and clearly identify that next step to them. Like I said, click to call. Here’s our phone number. Register now, start here, just call to actions, right? It’s something that’s a big part of this update for Google. They want to make sure that people get served by the website. So that’s a little bit harder to find, right? I mean, you can get into some gray areas there, but just think about your website. If you’re going to look at yours, like, “All right, what should I be worried about?”, you have a little bit of the curse of knowledge on your hands.
If you built the website or you’re the business owner, you know, “Well, I’m trying to sell this widget or this gidget. So can’t they see? It’s here on the page.” We’ve experienced usability testing, Bob, kind of gone down that road before. It’s amazing sometimes when we design a webpage, we think, “Well, clearly this is where the person navigates.” People may be scrolling up and down, looking left and right. Like, “Where is the thing? I want to contact you. Where’s that phone number?” or things like this. Right? Do yourself a favor and check that out. Right? That’s that’s kind of what we’re talking about for these CTAs, these strong call to actions, a clear intent for your page. The last bit of the overall summary here is images. Alt text, alternate text, for images is something that’s big. That gets a little bit more into like ADA compliance, things like that.
If somebody can’t see the image, the alt text still calls out what the image is. Again, helps for the experience of the website. What is on this page? What is the intent of this page? What’s the purpose of this page? Alt text conveys that for what the images are maybe if the images can’t be seen and things like that. There is a page, we’ll link to it in the show notes, that gets a little deeper into some of this, put out by Google. It’s developers.google.com/speed/pagespeed/insights. I don’t know. That’s Google’s link, not mine. You can run your website through that. And if anybody’s familiar with Google Lighthouse, this is basically built now in that kind of same thing. Plug your website in. Again, check our show notes. We’ll link to this, but plug your website, run it. And the thing that I’m going to get into here, a little more in detail, Google’s going to give you a full on report.
The cool part with this, Google has been very frontal about kind of “Here’s the things we’re going to be looking for on this page experience update. Here’s tools developed by us to grade and assess your website and we’ll show you what we’re going to be pointing to that’s going to be good or bad on your website.” So check this thing out. There’s three, so all this stuff we just talked about there, Bob, is more contextual. These are the things. This is how to make it tangible, the mobile, the speed. And now we’re getting to some new acronyms for us that Google has put out there that we’re going to start paying attention to. First one is LCP, which is largest contentful paint. What that is, is measures the perceived load speed, basically. So when I say perceived load speed, there’s a lot of factors in how your website actually loads.
There’s tricks out there to mask, like your page might be huge, but they’re showing it through Google like it’s small. There’s other things here. But basically as you run through this and what it’s going to be doing is at what point in time with all the information that loads on your page, sometimes you might have something for that on your page, like somebody has to click on it to maybe open a box or hover over a certain widget and it gets animated. There’s things on a website that will only trigger when a user kind of engages with that part. This is talking about here, what’s the exact phrase here, the point in the page load timeline when the main content is likely to have loaded. This is all like super technical and dry, but this whole LCP thing means if we go back to saying, if I click on a website and it’s taken three seconds and it’s just a blank white screen, you don’t need your entire web page to load within three seconds.
What you need is this LCP, this largest contentful paint. I just need to see that the page is loaded for what I’m going to be digesting right now. Right? The rest of it can kind of load it as maybe I scroll down the page further, right? It just needs to stay ahead of me a little. So your whole webpage doesn’t need to load within three seconds, but the experience part, the part that I’m digesting when I click on your page, that needs to load quick, right, is an easy way to think about it. Again, you go to this Google’s developer page, use this tool, they’re going to expand on this stuff that we’re just doing a high summary now, trying to cram it all into one episode. We’ll be doing a deeper dive and people are free to deep dive themselves through that resource.
Bob Brennan: And you can’t load. You can only load at your stuff on that tool, right? There’s no way you can load your competitors to understand maybe are they doing something different better or whatever?
Jesse Dolan: Great question. Yeah. You sure, you can do anything. You can plug in any page in there, right? Yeah. So if you want to see how a competitor is stacking up, yeah, plug it in there. I wouldn’t say that there’s any crazy insight. That’s not going to tell you maybe how they did it or whatever, but if you just want it to grade, like, “Okay, how am I comparing?”, absolutely. Absolutely.
Bob Brennan: If they’re both loading the same or about the same, then that’s not where your issue is. But if, if they’re killing you, then that might be where you need to make some changes.
Jesse Dolan: Absolutely. And if they’re killing you, if you check that out right now, again, it’s April 15th here, if you find out that there’s somebody above you and they are scoring really good in this area, and you’re not, if you just do other SEO factors, but ignore this part of it, over the next month, you may make some traction, but going forward, they’re going to still outrank you then, right, if they’re crushing in this area, because Google has given more attention to this. It doesn’t mean you’re going to be erased, right? You just may have a harder time getting the number two or number one. The next one is FID, which is first input delay. That is the time from when a user first interacts with the page to the time when the browser begins processing that interaction. Right? So again, this gets into the actual usability of that page.
So how long from when a user interacts with that page could be like a click or a tap or a doing something with a mouse or whatever somewhere. The next one, and by the way that LCP, at least kind of within the industry, that’s the main one people are focused on because that is more of a direct loading time. These other ones are still experience factors, but just in people that we’ve talked to, articles, things like that, you Google, Google them and read them, the LCP is the one to worry about. That’s more loading time speed, bounce rates, things like that.
Bob Brennan: Let me run this by you, Jess. Are these factors for the average small business? I mean, if you’re a Fortune 500 company, Lord knows how many pages and everything else, I mean, do you see this for Joe small business owner, whatever, that big of a deal or, I mean, what are your thoughts?
Jesse Dolan: Yes and no. Yes, in the long-term. No, if you’re, if you have a website that’s fairly up to date, if you’ve been managing it the last year or two, if you haven’t touched your website in five or six years, I’d be concerned, right? But if your website is already responsive, it looks decent on mobile, it loads, in your mind, relatively fast, I wouldn’t lose sleep over this, but I would definitely start looking at it. I would start talking to your web person, your SEO or engage with somebody like us to look at it for you and help you decide if it’s an issue or not. But as we go forward, this will be things that your competitors are working on. Right? And again, Google’s not going to so much penalize people, like if your site’s not fast, you’re done. It’s more of, hey, faster sites will rank higher than slower sites now, right.
Sites that score better on LCP will rank better than sites that score lower on LCP and so on. So you’re not going to maybe completely fall off the radar. There’s not going to be this gigantic, at least in our impression, not going to be this gigantic upheaval of rankings overnight suddenly, but it will be something that you have to keep in mind going forward, just like, again, mobile optimization or security or things like that have been in the past. There’s a transition period. So yeah. Learn more about the FID, first input delay, on the Google developer page. And we’ll be getting into that more again later. LCP’s the big one. And then the last one here is CLS, probably, in my mind at least, kind of second place out of the three and that’s cumulative layout shift. This is the preventing the annoying and unexpected movement of page and content.
So I don’t know if you ever looked, a good example that we use is, you don’t see it as much anymore, but go back a year or two, like on Facebook, maybe you’re looking at like top 10 things President Trump did this week that are dumb or whatever it was, right? Click on the article. And it’s like, number one, and you read it, it’s got a picture. Then there’s a button on there that it says next. And like after four seconds, right when you’re ready to hit next, that next button goes down and now it’s an ad and you click on the ad by mistake, like “Son of a gun. What?” That’s kind of what we’re talking about here is these annoying and unexpected movement to page content. That’s an extreme example, but I think it’s something that resonates.
Bob Brennan: And I welcome that. I mean, my God.
Jesse Dolan: If you got nothing else to do, just waste time clicking back and trying to find your place again.
Bob Brennan: Oh, yeah. I’m the king of that, clicking on the wrong article that pops up and I’m just ready to toss my computer or my phone.
Jesse Dolan: To that point, again, these things are centered around making sure the web pages that Google serves up have good experiences, right? That’s a horrible experience, I think we were talking about there. I think we all understand that frustration. Your website shouldn’t be doing that. If your website is doing that, have it stop because Google’s going to start promoting websites above yours that aren’t doing it, all things being equal. Overall, I guess just kind of wrapping it up, the bottom line here. Things that you really need to be worrying about is making sure that your website is as fast as possible, not that you have to get extreme and just be the fastest website. Like we’ve talked in different ways, Bob, this is all about you compared to your competition, right? Don’t worry. If you’re in Chicago, don’t worry about some site in LA or some site in Minneapolis. Look at your competitors.
What is Google favoring right now, for your terms, in your market? Who are you going up against? Compare yourselves to them. Keep striving to be the leader and be better, but don’t kill yourself. If you’re already the best, focus somewhere else for right now, competitors will catch up. This is a constant thing. SEO’s never done as we know. It’s ongoing. So page load speeds, responsiveness, meaning if you’re on desktop versus mobile, does it shift? Is it responsive? Things like that. Usability, user experience. In general, your site needs to, again, this is kind of the most intangible of these areas, it needs to add value. It needs to be better than your competitors. It needs to be more enticing, more direct, more leading you to the path, however you’re kind of looking at that, comparing, your site just needs to try to be better. Now, how exactly is Google going to parse that out?
They’re going to try to use some of these tools and these acronyms and these ways, but at the end of the day, a lot of it, the thought is going to be based on the behavior. Again, the bouncing out, the checking first site. Now I’m going to second site. They have their ways. And then the other two that we’re already familiar with, mobile usability and security, which should be something that everybody’s already checked off their lists at this point. If you haven’t, you’re probably not ranking anyways. Yeah. I think that really sums it up. It’s time to start not just being fast and tricky with keywords, but it’s about the user experience, having those nice stores in the mall, like you’re saying. Google’s getting more advanced and they have to stay on top of their game to make sure they’re the number one search engine in the land.
I mean, they’re a huge target, whether it be from, from governments or other corporations trying to break them up, take them down, whatever it is, their number one job is to make sure they’re the number one search engine we go to to find things. And they’ve keyed in on this being a factor that makes a good or a bad website. You said this years ago, we say it all the time, is it’s their game, we’re just playing it. They’ve changed the rules. The sky’s not falling. We have to adapt, but they’ve changed the rules. We’ve got to pay attention and make sites that are good user experience that add value and things like that. So what do you think?
Bob Brennan: I think that covers it and again, I think they’re trying to protect everybody and there’s a lot of nefarious sites out there and I can’t imagine what they’re up against. And then obviously with mobile being the majority of the searches and views and everything that goes with it, that’s a whole different game.
Jesse Dolan: So this is not the first update by Google. It will not be the last update by Google. And we just got to keep rolling with it. All right, let’s get to our five star review for this episode here. We’ve got a great review from Charles Irwin. This review is off of our Google My Business. Charles says, “I’ve listened to several podcasts and yours is by far the most practicable information.” I’m sorry. I misread that. “I listen to several podcasts and yours, by far, provides the most practical information. Your ability to get to the point is appreciated.” Thanks, Charles. Hopefully you feel that way after this episode, which is confusing, maybe not as straightforward, but useful none the less. If you’re out there listening, if you do like our show and haven’t left us a review yet, excuse me, we’d love to hear from you.
Go onto localSEOtactics.com, scroll to the bottom, click on reviews, Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, Google My Business, Facebook, wherever you want to leave your review, we’d love to hear it. Lets us know we’re doing a good job and providing value. And of course we’ll give you a shout out and read it on the show if you do submit. We really appreciate it. Share it with your friends, tell everybody about it. Anything you can do like that helps us out on the show. And like I said, we really appreciate it. So thanks, Charles, and everybody else tuned in listening on this episode. We’ll check you out on the next one. Later.
Bob Brennan: See you guys.