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Local SEO Tactics

 Why On Page SEO Matters Most in 2024 with Terry Samuels – Happy Hour SEO – 221

Exclusive Strategies For Maximizing Your SEO Content’s Effectiveness

In this SEO Happy Hour episode, Jesse is joined by SEO expert and agency owner Terry Samuels who answers questions from Co-Host TJ and the Intrycks SEO team. Follow along as they cover the latest in on-page SEO strategies from the latest Google update to harnessing the power of using AI tools like ChatGPT. Stay ahead of the search engine trends and listen now!

What You’ll Learn

  • Why you should personalize your AI-generated content for better engagement in 2024
  • How to craft compelling titles, descriptions, and headers that resonate with both users and search engines.
  • What strategies are there for optimizing internal linking and prioritizing contextual links over traditional navigation to enhance SEO
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Jesse Dolan: Happy hour SEO, why on-page SEO matters most in 2024 with Terry Samuels. You are on Local SEO Tactics, but this is a happy hour edition. We’ve got Terry on, we’re going to talk AI. We’re going to talk on-page SEO and we’re going to talk a little bourbon. One of my favorite topics and joined also this week with my co-host or by my co-host TJ Elder, SEO manager here at Intrycks. We’re going to interview Terry. We also have our Intrycks SEO team on this episode as the audience adding some great questions for Terry, adding a new dynamic to these episodes. And I think you’re really going to like it. Again, talking AI, talking tools, talking on-page SEO, and what matters most for your website in 2024 and how to stay out of the curve, check it out. Let’s get into it.

All right, welcome back to Local SEO Tactics where we bring you tips and tricks to get found online. I’m your host, Jesse Dolan. Got a great episode here today. I have TJ Elder from our SEO team here at Intrycks as co-host and we are happy to bring on Terry Samuels. How you doing, Terry?

Terry Samuels: Good. How are you? Thank you for having me.

Jesse Dolan: Yeah, friend of the show, been on here multiple times. If anybody is not familiar with Terry, real quick, check out episode, we got a few of them here, 76 and 77, which is a two-parter. What is website schema? Kind of an introductory on schema. And then we had three, if I’m counting right, three episodes that are basically questions about schema. Terry, you’ve had some great episodes with us, very popular topic with schema and a lot of questions have came in. So we did a number of follow-up episodes, just peppering you some questions. Everybody can check those out. It’s number 98, 136 and 168. Yeah, a lot of Terry Samuels and we’re going to do even more today. Terry, thanks for joining us.

Terry Samuels: You’re welcome. What number are you guys up to now?

Jesse Dolan: That are we, 215, 220? It’s going to be somewhere in that range once all the post-production is done. So yeah, love doing this, love having people like you on. And this is a little bit different twist today. We’ve actually got, if anybody’s watching on YouTube, you’re not going to see them, but our SEO team is here in the audience to mingle, participate, pick Terry’s brain. And yeah, that’ll be a different twist that we haven’t done before on the show here. Some other real quick just background for Terry again, if anybody doesn’t know who he is, SEO guru. Terry, you’ve had your own agency, Saltera for over 10 years now, former Navy.

Terry Samuels: Yeah, just celebrated 14 years last month.

Jesse Dolan: 14 years, that’s awesome. Maybe if you want to tell us how long you’ve been doing these other events and things as well that you’re behind. So SEO Spring Training, you’re the owner and mastermind of that. How many years you been doing that?

Terry Samuels: Mm-hmm. This will be our fifth year.

Jesse Dolan: Nice with a little COVID delay in there, right?

Terry Samuels: Yeah, well, the COVID one, that’s the one that we turned digital and we turned, uh, what was supposed to be a two day conference into an eight day conference. And we had like 72 speakers. We had like 900 people come through. Um, but everybody was locked down, you know, so what else are you going to do?

Jesse Dolan: And that was the first one I attended. That was awesome. Like timing and everything else. Just, yeah, how it, man, it filled a big void there. That was really cool. And that’s how I really get into.

Terry Samuels: It really did. And it was one of those things that, you know, it was, I mean, I tell people there’s some things in your agency life that, you know, you can be really proud of. And that was probably that we pivoted in like three weeks. I mean, it was crazy. So, but it worked out. It was really awesome. And yeah, it was a lot of fun. And it’s always nice to be back live though. That’s for sure.

Jesse Dolan: And it’s great. We were just chatting before we jumped on TJ and I were there last year. Uh, we sponsored hung out. Uh, it’s a great time. If anybody is looking for something, what are the dates coming up? Terry, I know what’s coming up here in April.

Terry Samuels: It’s April 5th, 6th, and 7th, Friday, Saturday, and Sunday.

Jesse Dolan: And I’m assuming you still got some tickets and room if people are looking to attend.

Terry Samuels: Yeah, we definitely got some of the general seats. The Tech Mastermind is almost full. And then we actually had one VIP that is not going to be able to fly in that early. So we have one VIP ticket just opened up like two days ago.

Jesse Dolan: Awesome. Yeah, anybody listening and watching, if you’re interested and if you can make it down in Phoenix, awesome. Awesome event, a lot of great rock stars are going to be there and you’re going to learn a ton about SEO, make some great contacts, highly recommended. Okay, so yeah.

Terry Samuels: Yeah, we got, it’s interesting. We’ve got, it’s in, sorry, I didn’t mean to interrupt you, but it’s interesting this year, we’ve even got small businesses coming. So we’ve got, um, a lawyer that’s coming and he’s bringing two of his staff to bring in. So a lot of these, you know, a lot of people are looking at doing in-house stuff. And so that’s interesting this year. This is the first year we’ve kind of had that weren’t my clients. A couple of my clients came last year. But yeah, it’s interesting.

Jesse Dolan: Nice. So not just if you’re looking to build an agency, right? Just SEO in general. Yeah, that’s a good crowd.

Terry Samuels: Yeah, I mean, it’s going to cover all aspects of marketing. Um, you know, we’ve got, uh, cause this year we’re doing the stage in the morning and then the afternoon we’re doing for mastermind breakout rooms. So we’ll have an on page room. We’ll have an AI room. We’ll have a off page room and then we’ll have a everything else. So if you want to go see some Facebook ad stuff or paper click stuff or agency growth stuff. But, um, yeah, we’re really excited about the new format for sure. And it’s three days this year instead of two.

Jesse Dolan: And like all good conferences, that sounds amazing, great format, but the after hours, right? The connections, the mingling, that’s where you make, man, you make some great connections there.

Terry Samuels: And that’s exactly that’s the biggest. For sure. That’s that’s 100 percent. That’s where the that’s where the live really you can take advantage of that part. You know, and even for me as an introvert, it’s, you know, hard for me to mingle at new things. But when everybody is kind of in the same boat or you want to talk to somebody that, you know, talk about something and you want to go ask more questions or whatever. Yeah, all the speakers stay on site, so they’re all available. That’s pretty cool. So that’s one of the things that we’re most proud of.

Jesse Dolan: And if you happen to catch Terry or other speakers after the conference is done, maybe offer to buy him a little bit of bourbon, might grease the wheels a little bit and there’s a great segue here for something I’d like to do with you, Terry. So did this with Michael Rayburn a number of episodes back and you and I have shared some bourbons before in person and it’s wonderful, we both love it. So yeah, we sent you a bottle of this. I got the same thing here.

Jesse Dolan: By the way, just to tell everybody what we’re going to be sipping on a nice pour, we have some peerless double oaked bourbon. Did you try it yet?

Terry Samuels: Yeah, yeah, I tried a little bit last night just because of I was reading an article about it. It’s actually pretty top rated It’s I’ve never had it before so it’s pretty cool. So Um, but I’ve learned I’ve learned a long time ago too that double oaks are always pretty good so Yeah, that’s kind of one of the things I look for is just double oaks if I haven’t tried nothing new But no, this is awesome

Jesse Dolan: I’m glad you like it. It is a little hot, right? It’s a little more proofy than something like a Woodford. And it’s, I don’t know, for me, it’s really thick on the yoke. It’s pretty aggressive, but it’s good. It’s really good. So I’m glad you like it. I’m going to pour one. It is 3.30 Central Time on Thursday here in Minnesota, but that’s fine by me if it’s fine by you. So.

Terry Samuels: It is. Yep. Definitely. Yep. It’s 2:30 here, so hey, that’s why we’re self-employed.

Jesse Dolan: No, Terry, I was going to say I’m glad that you do like it just because a few people that I know are double-oak fans I’ve shared the peerless with and it’s a little more aggressive than something like the Woodford, but I thought you’d appreciate it. So.

Terry Samuels: Mm-hmm. Well, and I like it too because, well, and I drink it on the rocks. I drink everything on the rocks. I’m not brave like Scowler and just drink it straight and have the whole throat burn and stuff. So, but the stuff I try, I was just reading this article when I got it because I didn’t know what it was. And this article said, yeah, so this guy even recommended how to try it. And he’s like, yeah, try it, you know, typical tasting type stuff. But yeah, I really liked it. And I said, oh, I got to put this away until tomorrow. I’ll end up drinking this before Jesse gets here.

Jesse Dolan: And it’s a stinking cool bottle too, right? It’s heavy, it’s hefty. So yeah, I’m glad you like it. Thanks for coming on and yeah, just nice, nice gift from one bourbon fan to another. So welcome back, TJ.

Terry Samuels: It is, totally. Mm-hmm.

Jesse Dolan: All right, Terry, should we talk some actual SEO? We haven’t talked a single shred of SEO yet, so let’s jump into it. So working title and topic here for you today is with the explosion of AI, why is on-page SEO the most important thing in 2024? We’ve got some questions for you. We want to pick your brain on this, but I’d love for you, whoops, but I’d love for you to just start with you know, riff off that. What do you mean by that? What is the point on that? And let us know what you’re thinking. Let’s start there.

Terry Samuels: Um, I think the biggest thing is, you know, we’re, it’s just ironic. We’re going through a huge AI spam update right now that people are actually getting, you know, the first penalties we’ve seen in years. Um, so that’s kind of interesting, but I think, I think from my mind is that, you know, obviously content is, is super important right now, probably more than ever, just because of the fact that, you know, it’s, it’s everybody’s vomiting content right now and some people are doing it right. Some people are doing it, I’m not going to say wrong, but there’s no human touch in between. But I think the biggest thing is, is that with all this content, kind of like the same thing with schema. So one of the things that I really started, I was teaching, I taught siloing years ago, and I’ve really started teaching siloing again, because that is becoming one of the catalysts for on-page, is internal linking, what pages are you linking to each other?

You know, the whole entity thing, the whole, all the stuff that we used to do just in schema, we’re now doing an on page. So we’re now doing in a public type visual format. So, um, so with that, you organizing the content is becoming more and more important in your website. So like Salterra, I think of we’ve added 300 pages the past year where we normally add maybe 20. So um, but we’re doing, we’re all about clustering now. We’re all about not just writing one article about web design and one article about SEO, then one article about, you know, email marketing, we’ll do 15 articles about email marketing, you know, and just make a cluster out of that whole thing. Um, but I think that’s the biggest thing that people need to pay attention to. The, um, one of the reasons I started my on page class is because a lot of the audits I was seeing was just shit interlinking, you know, no thought process in it. You know, every, every time it said web design, it’s going to the web design page. I mean, it was just really, you know, a convoluted mess. And I think that like schema where I think schemas was designed to organize the internet, if you want to go that broad. On page, I believe, especially siloing is to organize your website. So, and that’s why I think it’s going to become more and more and more important as people are vomiting content. You know, you need to make sure your content’s standing out. You need to make sure it’s helpful. We’ve all understood that, you know. So we’re all writing a little bit differently than we might have done a year or two ago. But I do believe that it’s super important to have a purpose in the writing, not just load 100 articles about web design, you know, and think you’re going to dominate web designers. I think you have to put more thought process into it these days. Then you know so and I think I think the people that are doing that are killing it They’re just doing awesome. You know so they’re not worried about this update that’s going on.

Jesse Dolan: So you mentioned kind of using a, you know, putting a human touch on it or sprinkling human touch, right? Not your exact words, those are mine, but. So creating all these pages. So I guess unpacking a few things, you’re not opposed to creating a ton of pages. If you’re doing it the right way, you know, you are opposed to just vomiting pages as you’re talking. And then we’re talking about that human touch. Are you referring there to, you know, you can’t just use AI to generate pages, you’re going to have to edit them yourself. Could you expand on that or tell us what you’re talking about?

Terry Samuels: Yeah, everything, everything that we do goes through Grammarly Pro, not just Grammarly. It has to be Grammarly Pro. That’s the first step. And then after that, you know, we there’s patterns, obviously words like furthermore in conclusion, you know, all this stuff that all these AI writers put into some people even say, delete the first paragraph and the last paragraph. And that’s, that’s really all you got to do and then throw it through Grammarly Pro. But yeah, I still think that it has to make sense, especially if you’re doing clustering. A lot of times it’ll duplicate paragraphs in the same, you know, in different articles about the same topic. If you’re not paying attention to that or not re-prompting, you know, whatever system you’re using, we use ChatGPT-4. If you’re not re-prompting for them, not for that, not to keep happening, then you know, you are going to have kind of, you know, cannibalization of, you know, stuff, you know, all the stuff that we always try to avoid. Um, I tell people it’s the old, um, mass page systems on steroids right now. So, you know, um, matter of fact, I just got a site yesterday to audit and, and he’s like, you know, half of my site won’t index it. Sorry, half of your site’s mass page. That’s why it’s not in there. You know, so again, you have to have a, you have that purpose of stuff you do with content these days, you know, and you have to write differently, you know, I mean, I tell people, especially in my class, get out of keyword research immediately. You need to be into queries. You need to be into how are people actually searching for these keywords? You know, don’t just focus on doing a bunch of content for hot water heater in Dallas, you know, focus on how are people searching that query to get to that page? That’s what you should writing about. That’s what your FAQ should be answering. That’s what all the other things that we tell people you need to pay attention to, you have to pay attention to these days. I think the people that are doing it, you know, think they’re going to be doing great.

Jesse Dolan: Yeah, back to it being useful content, right? Just to use that phrase, which kind of gets overused. I know I hate saying it out loud even, but really it has to be useful at the end of the day. Otherwise it is just that garbage that’s not going to get indexed.

Terry Samuels: For sure, you know, and it’s, you know, especially about, you know, when you start talking, like I’m having now in medical, I’m doing a lot of medical stuff. So obviously we’re paying attention to about page and doctor pages and, you know, nurse practitioner pages and all these things that we kind of just haphazardly through together. We’re really making sure that, you know, it has the information that, you know, will help people to make a decision. You know, it’s not just, here’s a couple of paragraphs about Mary. You know, Mary could be the selling point if you do the content, right? If you put some thought processes into it. And that’s what ChatGPT is great at is giving us those topics and things that we don’t realize or, you know, would have never thought of when you start. You know, we, we actually train ChatGPT per brand. So when I go back to Salterra web, I’ve got a different chat for each one of my services. So when I go back to Salterra web design to write more about web design, it already knows me. It knows the content it’s written. I can tell it’s a not be any more than 75% duplicate content, you know, all these different variables because it knows it. So it makes, it makes the writing more accurate. Um, and it’s, you know, I think it’s a lot funner that way.

Jesse Dolan: Do curate, you know, curator writer, right? Or an employee or a team member, you know, however you want to, you know, put that context in your mind when you’re doing, like you’re saying, you’re going back and you’re re-engaging with that entity, that persona. Um, and hopefully, sorry guys. Hopefully not getting the, uh, that same. Templated crap. Like you mentioned, take the first paragraph and the last paragraph and you can get them out of there. The same superlatives that ChatGPT uses all the time as you, as you train it and get it to be in your voice that you’re desiring going back to that and sticking with that, you still have to sprinkle the human touch on like you’re saying, but man, does that make it a lot easier at the end of the day.

Terry Samuels: Oh, for sure. Yeah. For sure. And it’s, yeah. And it’s, you know, one of the things people are doing it for, you know, interlinking stuff and that, you know, that’s one of the things that will always be manual is the way we interlink. You know, I don’t want anybody or any tool telling me I should link this to here. Um, we do use link whisper just for more of a suggestion type of thing. If we’re, you know, cause I like to have spaces between interlinking and I don’t know, there’s a whole process to interlinking now that we’ve just kind of went down that rabbit hole.

Jesse Dolan: That so we’re, you know, in the working title, we’re talking about AI, right? The explosion of AI. We’ve talked specifically ChatGPT, but you know, in that vein right there, are there any other tools, uh, you don’t have to divulge all your secrets and all your, all your, uh, all your links here, but, uh, within the realm of AI, are there any other tools that you’re leveraging or you think people watching and listening should be aware of outside of what chat does?

Terry Samuels: Um, I think the, I mean, we’re, we’re strictly ChatGPT four. Um, you know, I’m playing with Claude and some of these other ones, but we’ve really, I, when I first started looking at this thing, like you and everybody else is like, gosh, it’s just more and more is coming every single day. You know, I’m not going to really pad this thing. I’m going to master one thing, which we mastered ChatGPT four. And now we’re going into the image thing. That’s a whole nother rabbit hole. You know, but I think the biggest thing is we, the only thing I caution people on is, especially if you’re doing stuff about accuracy, top 10, give me the top 10 plumbers in Dallas. Well, they guess. First three or four or five are probably going to be pretty close, but then the rest are going to be kind of a whatever. You just gotta be careful with that stuff. So it’s really good at finding or telling entities. It’s really good at you know, going after semantic terms and all these other things that we try to sprinkle into our content and it’s also good sprinkling that stuff into the content. So it’s no longer hand this to a writer. Here’s my main keyword. Here’s my other three variations to please try to include. And you get this content that’s just like, uh, so, but with ChatGPT, you know, it’ll just write longer content in order to fit those two or three or four, and we don’t do stupid stuff. We don’t say, hey, include these 20 words or anything like that. It’s like, here’s the main keyword for this thing, but we want these entities, these terms, these LSIs or whatever sprinkles throughout the content. And it’s really good at that, especially if you’re training it and you’re paying attention to your prompts and adjusting your prompts. And I’ve had fights with ChatGPT, I’ve yelled at her. Yo, straighten up. This is shit content you’re producing. You know? So, um, but again, that’s, that’s the rabbit. We didn’t want to go down the rabbit hole of finding all these. It’s like testing plugins. I haven’t, I haven’t tested any of the plugins for chat. Cause again, it’s a rabbit hole. You know, I know there’s one out there that you can put a whole page content into and click a button and it’ll rewrite it off. We haven’t done any of that type of stuff. We’re all still pretty manual. Um, just because I do like that human, all my writers are now editors. I think a lot of people have done that. So, you know, and they’re becoming very good at prompting, you know, through, you know, suggestions and stuff like that we go through. But yeah, I think it’s not going away. So, you know, you might as well embrace it and use it for, you know, use it for good. Our clients like it, you know, they get the same ChatGPT link that we use so they can go in and write some stuff if they want to write some stuff or I’ve got one guy, one of my IT guys, I’m helping him write a book, you know, so it can do a lot of cool stuff if you kind of know how to play with them.

Jesse Dolan: When I think you’re talking like, let’s just call it the full meal deal for AI, where you can have a plugin, it can monitor your content, it can change your content. Right. And do all this, which sounds amazing and very attractive siren to, to try to go after, right. And be enticed by, um, but we’ve, we’ve avoided that, you know, here at Intrycks, just cause well, for many reasons, but one of them is I feel like when you start to become that detached. Like how do you even know as an SEO, how do you even know what’s going on anymore? How can you give recommendations? How do you just have that knowledge base? I think it’s like ChatGPT-4 especially, it’s a great tool to have in your toolbox, right? But you still have to be the professional on top of it. Maybe I’m just dragging my feet is my mentality for technology here, but man, this has changed so much. Just this ChatGPT-4 for helping writing is an amazing, amazing tool.

We’ve been doing this both for a while, Terry. You know, there’s been plenty of like content spinners and things where, man, you would have loved to have ChatGPT before, you know, 10 years ago for all the different software we all probably use and these mass site type stuff. This is such a dream. I’m fine with going slow and just having it, like you said, having writers now be editors and taking that efficiency. It’s kind of scary to go all in at this point. In that vein, are there other AI related software tools, SaaS, things like this that maybe you’ve tried out and want to avoid or any other warnings. Maybe you want to throw out there to people about, about that.

Terry Samuels: I think the biggest thing is tools that use AI. So I’ve been a huge Zimmwriter fan since Matt released that software. Huge Zimmwriter fan. Mainly because it can write while you’re working and just throw shit into the Google Drive and you just pump it full. I also love Search Atlas. Search Atlas has a really good AI content system. So, those types of systems I like, um, Chad Michael has a Google, um, a Google sheet content writer through that’s built with the ChatGPT backend. Um, that there’s going to be a lot of that at spring training, obviously. Cato’s got one, you know, so I think, I think the biggest thing that we’re going to start seeing is that depending on your goal of what you need to that’ll dictate what tools you use. You know, so, um, like with the podcast, um, me and ChatGPT, it actually lays out the whole podcast for me. So when I try to stick with it, um, of course you got to be flexible, but, um, it definitely reminds me of the questions I need to ask, like, Hey, subscribe below different things that, you know, a brand new podcaster forgets. Um, and I think if you’re using tools, like if you want to load, you know, like Zimmwriter is really good at doing 20 articles about this topic, you know, using these entities and all this stuff and it’ll write it for you. You still have to throw it through a system, Grammarly Pro and a Human Touch, but it’s faster than ChatGPT. ChatGPT is kind of like one article at a time. So it might do more, but the more it tries to do, the less it gets, the less good it is, so to speak. You know it’s really good at a 1,500 word article. It sucks at a 3,000 word article. So, um, and I say suck just with a grain of salt, but still, you can tell at the end it’s getting a little lazy, you know, it’s like, Hey, you already mentioned this up here. You know, what the hell? So, um, but yeah, no, I think, I think people, you know, um, Content Sprouts, another great one, you know, Andrew Anzley’s, you know, system. So if you’re in a situation that you want to kind of really get a handle on your content. And speaking of which, we just completely revamped our whole content team between the last four weeks. So we’ve completely revamped everything how we do content. Just because I believe it’s now even more important than our link building division. So we still have our link building side, but it’s more about content now.

So, cause we’re getting, we’re seeing natural links come in, especially if you’re writing around topics that people are querying for. If you can start getting a couple of those, people also ask boxes or you start catching some snippets here and there, you know, that kind of stuff, just that’s what writing content’s about. And then putting schema on it for the icing on top of the cake.

Jesse Dolan: It’ll be interesting as the next month plays out. As we’re recording this, Terry did mention it earlier, but Google did announce a core algorithm update here yesterday, I believe. So it’ll be interesting over the next month to see how that plays out. But I think a lot of these things we’re talking about today are really kind of on the bleeding edge related to that core update too, with what Google is trying to do to either sniff out mass content, mass page stuff linking networks, PBNs, there’s a lot of things in that update that feel like we’re turning a little bit of a corner and we’re on the same page as you like just good content, human, relatable, helpful, you know, good content is, is going to, I think be a lot stronger going forward. Backlinks are so important, but you can just read the language and what they’re putting out there. They might be figuring out.

Terry Samuels: But I think, and you also, you still have to remember the bottom line thing, especially about search engines is they still can’t read. So it’s not like somebody magically taught them to read left to right, top to bottom or whatever language it’s in. They’re still looking for signals. So this is the thing that, and a bunch of people that are talking about this, especially in the, you know, not really the black hat groups, but the more advanced groups is that you know, this is probably, you know, people are getting, people are getting spammy penalties, but they’re also going to be hurting regular websites. Like they always do. You know, they’re going to clean up all the spam listings and maps. And all of a sudden you, you lost three of your good actual fricking locations because of Google’s spam update. So I think it is going to be interesting. I’m thinking it’s going to be, I actually, I hate to say this because I might backfire, but I actually hope I get a penalty.

You know, not only why did I get this, but how did I, how did it fix? So I used to love that. That’s, I started with penalties. That’s how I started SEO. My very first client was in a massive penalty. It took us 13 months to get them back. So, um, I’m kind of intrigued now that they’re actually sending out a penalty. You know, of, you know, what did I say? And I’ve been reading and some people show what it says and everything, but I kind of want one and I’ve got a couple of sites that are a hundred percent AI.

You know, especially the ones I built the class around, or I use for examples for the class. And they’re just continue to go up. So again, yeah, you’re right. The next month is going to be really interesting. Don’t go out and start making a bunch of changes, even if you got hit, don’t just, oh shit, I gotta hire somebody and hope to change stuff. Let it fester a little bit, let it get through this process, because also, Google’s very famous for coming back with another minor update to fix all the shit that the update caused. So yeah.

Jesse Dolan: I’ll even say it takes weeks or even a month or so on this one, I think for it to roll out, plus what you’re saying. Yeah, no, don’t sound the alarm bells. I do want to ask you a few questions about, you’re mentioning signals, right? Which I think was totally accurate. I want to ask some questions here about on-page and those signals. Before I dive into that, TJ, I just want to see if we have anything from your end, if we want to dive deeper, kind of before we turn, turn the corner here and go into that.

TJ Elder: Yeah, I know, I think we’ve got a few questions, ready to go here. I think they’re all kind of related to that same thing. So, maybe I’ll start with this one. Terry, earlier you said, you mentioned it’s important to make content stand out. So maybe this is going to connect with the on-page signals, but how do you make content stand out? And especially with, a lot of people using the same AI tools are getting the same kind of writing. Um, is it a prompting thing? Is it an editing afterwards thing? Um, what are your thoughts on that?

Terry Samuels: Well, for us, and one of the things, we actually did a presentation with this at Rockstars. I think if you’re using any kind of scraper, which all these are scrapers, understand that. They’re just large language model scrapers. But I think what we figured out at the very beginning is that you have to personalize that scrape. So you have to personalize that chat that you’re getting ready to have with that brand and there’s 20 questions that we give to every client and the client fills these things out. I make them get very detailed because the more detailed you are, the more chats going to know you. You know, it’s going to know you, it’s going to know your competitors, it’s going to know your locations, it’s going to know your goals, it’s going to know, you know, all the different stuff. And once you do that, now you have set yourself apart automatically.

Nobody’s doing this. Not enough, not on a scale. Some people will, you know, Hey, write me an article about, you know, the affordability of a great web design using WordPress and make it from a friendly voice and use the brand. Salter. Well, no, that’s still a guesswork. So, you know, but, but if chat knows Salterra, it knows who I am, how much experience we have, all the different variables about the stuff we do.

It makes it very simple to go in and say, okay, give me a detailed article about X and include like entities, like semantics, like LSI’s, all these different things you want to include in the article. And the main keyword for this article is X and the goal of this article is to be a helpful content that will drive conversions. Boom. So now, now you’re getting content that is branded. It’s different than everybody else, because it includes your brand name. You can even tell it include a quote from Jesse Dolan about why this product is so good. And so you’re still writing AI content, but you’re writing personalized AI content that nobody else is writing about. So anybody can write about what’s the advantage of a tankless hot water heater versus standard hot water. Simple freaking thing. But now you do it from the voice of the plumber or the sales people or whoever actually is, you know, telling you why you want to tank this compared to a traditional. That’s a whole different article now. And then obviously we do frequently asked questions. If it’s a blog post, blog posts get three things. They get the article, they get a frequently asked questions that’s topically related. So if I have all my web design blogs have the same web design FAQ.

And then we have an about page or author box, so to speak. That author box is pretty detailed. And it’s again, it’s topically related, but those are my links to my GMBs. So those are my links that I’ll put in, you know, Salterra web design in temp Arizona will be a link to the long URL of my map, you know, so, and that author box again, goes on everything that’s web design. So when we do blogs or when the staff does blogs, they go to the most recent.

My favorite tool, even though Yoast owns it, is Yoast Duplicate Post. They hit the duplicate post thing, they change the top, which is just the blog itself, the new content, the FAQ stays the same and the author box stays the same, they load it. So we get one link to this, what we call, whatever it calls the money page or whatever page you’re writing about. And then it gets probably two links, one for sure, but maybe two links to other like blog posts in that kind of topic. So if I’m writing 10 articles about the advantages of WordPress, so all those articles will be interlinked together and then they’ll support my WordPress web design page that I’m going after nationally.

Jesse Dolan: Terry, when you’re saying that just for everybody, follow along taking notes when you’re talking about those other blog posts linking, those are your own, you’re interlinking your own blog posts. You’re not talking two links out to some external, right? So.

Terry Samuels: No, all internal and we don’t, um, you know, right, wrong or indifferent. I don’t believe in, um, drip feeding content anymore. We all used to do that, you know, low two a week, you know, low 10, I’ll, you know, I’m covered for five weeks. I don’t believe in doing that anymore, mainly because we never know when it’s our turn to get crawled. I guarantee everybody guarantees, especially people that have been in this business a long time.

Google has a major bandwidth problem right now. You know, just think of all the stuff that they’re trying to crawl, you know? And so my little plumber site or my little Salterra site, you know, if I get them every week, every couple weeks, I want them to crawl every single thing that is brand new from the last time they were there, which is why you want to set your site map to last modified. One of the most important things you have to do most site maps are default alphabetical. So you’re about pages getting crawled every single fricking time Google comes to your site. So changes will last modify. If you load 20 blogs in the past two weeks, those will hopefully, those will be the first ones. Otherwise you’re just fighting upstream.

TJ Elder: That was actually going to be my next question is, do you intentionally pace out the publishing of that new content? That’s super funny that you kind of read my mind on that one. And that’s, you know, it’s a really good point about how frequently Google is coming and crawling your website. So, yeah, a lot of good stuff.

Terry Samuels: Yeah, for, I mean, and I just, just to kind of not to ride over your TJ, but I just talked to a guy today and I’m another agency. We’re going to do a bunch of like white label stuff for, and they actually tell their clients that your website gets crawled every day. It don’t, it doesn’t, you know, unless you get a million hits a month or a hundred thousand hits a month or 200,000. I mean, you’re not, you’re just a little speck in the, in the sand of the beach.

You know, yeah, we want to encourage them to get back. There’s things we can use like Omega indexer and some other stuff to try to get them to come back sooner, but don’t think that you’re going to load a blog today and it’s going to rank tomorrow. Sometimes you get lucky. Sometimes then the other times you’re going to be explaining to your client why their blog isn’t ranking after a month. Well, they didn’t even know about it until two weeks ago.

Jesse Dolan: Can’t control that. Try to manipulate it like you’re saying, but at the end of the day, I really like that, that little nugget there. You don’t know when, or you can’t control when you’re going to get crawled. So why wait to drip or try to time it right? You just, you put your stuff out there. And I suppose too, if somebody’s like, I want to write one blog post per week, right? Keep doing that. To your point is if you got 15, you’re like, should I drop them all right now or paste them out? You know, you’re saying go ahead and go ahead and drop them all, right? But interesting.

Terry Samuels: I mean, that, yeah, I mean, drop them all. And if you’re, you know, I mean, the old days of doing a couple, three blogs a month or over, if you’re going to be that person, you’re going to get railroaded. Um, and it’s, it’s being proven everywhere. You know, our tests are proving it. You know, we’ve done tests loading a hundred a day. We’ve done tests loading one a day, you know, and the magic numbers, you know, typically like 10, 20, 30 at a time, but kind of spread out. Not you know, 10 a day, 30 a day, whatever. And it’s interesting because a lot of people, especially on the affiliate side, when you buy an expired domain or an auction domain, one of the ideas is once you get the site done, is load a hundred freaking blogs at once around a topic, and you optimize the ones that get indexed right away, because those are obviously the ones that Google likes, so to speak. And then you just keep an eye on, how many other ones index? Well, I’m kind of the reverse. I’d rather do 20 of them and get all 20 of them freaking indexed, and then go to the next 20. And just because of, at least for an agency SOP, it doesn’t make sense for me to load 100, go back and do 50, have the VAs check next month to see if we’ve got 10 or 20 more. I’m just like, nope, these are the topics. These are the queries that we’re going to write about these topics.

And we’re just going to freaking go for it. So it’s, uh, I don’t know. It’s it’s content was never exciting to me. Actually. I went to a conference, one of the very first conferences I ever went in this business was all about content. I thought it was a stupid as freaking conference. Like, what the hell am I here for? I’m a coder guy. I don’t do content, you know? So, um, but now, especially with the suggestions from ChatGPT, depending on your prompts. You know, and then the writing a ChatGPT, depending on your prompts and the creativity you can get with the on page, um, it’s pretty cool, you know, and then you tie in a press release and now of a sudden you’ve taken this cluster to a whole different, so, um, yeah, all with ChatGPT.

Jesse Dolan: Not just content at that point, but like hopefully authoritative and content that’s getting other eyeballs on it from all the bots and things like that. So I think there’s some smart nuggets in there. TJ, I do have some more things I want to throw at Terry, but do you have any more on a question and on your end first?

TJ Elder: Yeah, I think one more question now, just because it’s on topic from, from Drew, from our team, um, how do you measure the success of your content and which metrics do you consider the most valuable? So you’re pumping out a lot of content. What are the things that you’re doing to kind of gauge which of that’s working? Do you kind of review that adapt? Um, what does that part of the process look like for you?

Terry Samuels: Yeah, a hundred percent. And the main thing we, we look for and look, look at is total number of keywords ranked. So, um, and we use SpyFu. A lot of people have heard me talk and I’ve even taught a little bit about SpyFu. But if you’re doing a content cluster around tankless hot water heaters, for instance, um, you know, you have a, you set up a baseline and SpyFu is saying, here’s the tankless hot water heater keyword for this brand. Give me everything this brand ranks for in this keyword you know, throw that in the spreadsheet. And then a month later you do the same thing again, after your content cluster. So if you were ranking for a hundred keywords or 50 keywords before the cluster, and now you’re ranking for 150 keywords or 200 keywords, you know, and you see which pages get the rank, I don’t care if it’s one through 100, I just want to see if it’s getting a rank. If it’s getting a rank, that means I can go to the next step and the next step. So, um, and that’s how you find out if you’re going to be was a cannibalized at the beginning. So SpyFu is one of my favorite tools, just because I can show the client and say, hey look, before, and all my content clusters are an upcharge, just so you know, for agency people. So if I just charge 450 bucks for a content cluster around tankless hot water heaters, and you were ranking for 80 keywords, and a month later you’re ranking for 400 keywords, that’s a success. So, and now we drill down from there.

TJ Elder: You’re kind of showing that Google is starting to recognize you as an expert in that content cluster. And when you say content cluster, you mean those 10 or 15 different blogs that are kind of all related, but covering different specific topics, they’re all related. They’re all kind of linked together. And then as a group, they’re kind of helping your website rank for a larger number of keywords overall.

Terry Samuels: For sure. Yeah. I consider one. I think one of the most important metrics as an agency we can report to clients is how many more keywords you’re getting credit for. That’s a huge thing. Everybody’s so stuck on one, two, and three, but to go after and say, hey, look, we are now on page seven for this query that gets 150 searches a month. And this query is a convertible query. These are people actually getting ready to make a click we should do and spend more emphasis on this query. And you only find out about that if you find out what you get credit for. So, you know, I just matter of fact, especially around the tankless hot water heater, you know, you get into best place to install it. You know, tankless hot water heater is solar beneficial. You get into all these different variables. And I use as an example, the plumber I did this for, he solar was such a killer for him, such a good keyword for him that, and he didn’t do solar. He still doesn’t do solar, but he’s partnered with a solar company to do this with. And three years ago, he never would have thought about doing solar. But because we did this cluster and these, there’s just, they started with three little solar clusters around Tankless Hot Water Heaters just went kind of quasi viral. But if you ever have a local client and something goes viral. Well, I’m not getting any leads from it. Yeah. Well, that’s, you know, that’s a different conversation, but, you know, but we found out through that process, we could just spend a little bit more time. And we ended up doing like 20, I think we did 26 articles around solar and tankless hot water heater, and he now is given the solar company, like 20 leads, 20 plus leads a month for a price. And he gets him, he gets a kickback per install or whatever thing they did. But that was a whole new you know, income stream for this. We’d have never done that if we wouldn’t have done it.

Jesse Dolan: You’re speaking this, Terry, answering TJ’s question, like as an agency owner, right? And coming from that mentality and why, but flipping it around, like as the business owner, as your customer, as your client, hearing you talk, and we’ve seen this over the years with us too, as we’ve gone away from like, what are your top 10 keywords, right? Same thing. Like, are we number one on that or not? To more so, what are you ranking for broadly?

That’s such a different conversation for, this is how Google sees you, right? This is what you’re ranking for. Like you may not even have known this was a phrase or a keyword that mattered. It wouldn’t even have been in your top 10 before, but look, it’s your third biggest traffic generator. Things like that, like from an owner standpoint, like can really get them thinking about their business, about what is and isn’t working. And then on the other side, if you are number three for that thing that they really want to be number one for, but their business is rocking, like it takes that pressure off too, like. That’s cool, I’m not going to grade you solely on did you get that one keyword to be my number one position or not, right? That there’s so much more to SEO and the results can bring. I like the way you’re talking on that. And hopefully if business owners are listening, right? Like take that in and understand that it’s not just the word or words that you were ranking for. You really have to figure out what it is that you are ranking for. That all comes together at a point, right? But you’re missing half if you don’t think about that. So interesting.

Terry Samuels: Well, and you have to, I mean, and it’s our job as agency owners, SEOs, whatever. Um, I don’t consider myself an SEO. I consider myself a brand builder. But, um, one of the things that we try to teach, especially our clients brand new is that they’ve been kind of semi-trained under keywords, you know? And so, you know, when you look at it and you, you teach them the value of converting keywords, you know, ranking for personal injury attorney is not going to bring you one freaking paid leave ever. Been proven a million freaking times. But ranking for construction accident attorney or car accident attorney, the actual converting terms that people are actually in trouble that need you, the only one that clicks on personal injury lawyer are their SEOs. That’s it. Mary’s not searching after a car accident trying to find a personal injury. She doesn’t consider that a personal injury. She’s in a car accident. So you know, one of the first things I’ve actually fired clients the first month because I could not get them off of this train of I want to be ranking number one for this and I’m like, I can make you 10 times the money going for this and they don’t care, you know, fine. Then I’m not your client. Go back and get somebody else. Go do something else because even if you rank number one for that, it’s going to bring you no business. It’s nothing that’s going to do any benefit for you.

You’re not going to get another million dollars for your company because you’re number one for that term. So, you know, you really, it’s our responsibility to kind of retrain a lot of these business owners to say, look, you don’t want to be number one for Plummer in Dallas. That’s not a converting term. You know, most of those are going to be looking for prices and all this crap anyways, but you know, emergency hot water heater replacement, somebody’s got a problem, you know, somebody needs help.

You know, they can’t get that from Lowe’s or Home Depot. So when I spend that goes about why we write content about stuff. I get a lot of clients that ask me why we’re writing content about stuff. I say, cause this is what people are searching for. This is what they look for. You know, if you’re a roofer and you’re not spending a bunch of time on that emergency stuff, you know, hail damage and all the stuff that people go after and writing a ton of content about that. You know, you’re going to lose out because those are people that are, they’re ready. They’re going to fricking, they’re probably going to go with the first person that answers the phone, you know, and you want to be in the top of that list, so get off of the keyword drain. No.

Jesse Dolan: Yeah, they want to, they want to do a search. They want to land on a page that gives them some confidence and they want to make that call and have somebody say, yeah, you’re in the right spot. And then that converts like you’re saying, right? That’s that’s very smart.

Terry Samuels: Exactly. Yeah, for sure. Alright, what’s next? Come on, bring it on!

Jesse Dolan: Anything else in here? He’s ready.

TJ Elder: No, I’d say let’s go back to what you had next, Jesse. And, you know, I’ll try to weave in some questions that are kind of related, but.

Jesse Dolan: Hey everyone, Jesse here. I wanted to interrupt this episode quick to talk to you about a new Boost SEO program. This is not a course or a traditional SEO service or program. This is a new hybrid solution that we’re putting out for businesses who can’t afford to outsource their SEO, but do want to accelerate the process and learning curve for SEO and implementing it on your site. I know SEO can be a complex and confusing field of study and practice. I also know that if you’ve got a business, you need to be visible on Google and capture that local market. So SEO is extremely important. Often we see the problem is that businesses don’t have the budget to hire professionals to do it, the time to invest into it, both, right? Or maybe you just want to learn and apply SEO to your business yourself, but know, it’s complex and time consuming, right? A very intimidating journey, like I’m saying. If this is you, if any of this is resonating with your business and your situation, we do have good news. Check out our Boost SEO program. You can go to We’ll help you to develop your SEO plan, how to execute SEO and be your mentor and guide along the way, along with a bunch of other cool stuff. It really is positioned kind of in the in-between space for people who do want to learn it, do have some time to invest, but not the money to have somebody completely do it for you. With BoostSEO you’re going to work with one of our dedicated SEO project managers with monthly meetings, go over strategy, action items for things to do over the next month, performance over the previous month, look over analytics, really just be your guide and Sherpa along the way for SEO. In addition to that, we’re going to use our power tools, right? Like I said, you’re going to do some of the work, we’re going to do some of the work. The work that you’re going to do, we’re going to guide you. We’re going to show you our training videos, you can have our library, and we’ll assign those to you to accomplish specific tasks that we work together on. But then we have our whole suite of SEO power tools and our talent, right? And our technical abilities. We’re going to do all that front side stuff for you and share the information with you and show you how to use it. So, yeah, we’re going to tag team this with you and get you the results that you’re looking for. And you’re going to learn a lot along the way. If you think this is something that you’re interested in, if this sounds important for your business, maybe something you can implement, check it out. Go to right now. Here in March, 2024, this is still in beta. We don’t have a ton of information on the website. Most of the information that’s out there is what I’m saying right now. It’s kind of preview for everybody so if you want to learn more, if you want to jump on board with it, or just put your name in there to kind of reserve a spot and see if you have some interest, go to, and we’ll be in touch.

Jesse Dolan: So yeah, I got a few questions here for you. Swinging back to the on-page side of the discussion. Wondering, you don’t have to like go super in-depth, but just for everybody watching and listening, if you had to give the old like top one, top two, top three type deal here for 2024 and going forward, I get in the face of AI and all the stuff we’ve been talking about, what are some of the stronger on-page either things you’re looking for, things you do right away for clients or just your overall recommendations. Whether we talk about just the homepage or some of these inner pages and the clusters and the silos, however you want to frame that up, what are some of the stronger signals? What are some of the things for the on page that you want to throw out to people?

Terry Samuels: Oh yeah, so no problem. Some of the strongest on page I can tell you right now are, you can still use the learn more, click here, more information buttons, but you need to make sure that you’re putting those inner links in the text. And you can hide the color of that link or whatever if it looks weird having AC inspection or whatever that term is you’re coming from the homepage. I guess the first thing about the home page is the whole idea of the home page is to get people off the home page. First thing, the home page is not really a converting page unless you’re in an emergency type situation. So the idea, especially for consumers and for Google, is that you want to make sure your home page is linking to the top of your most important pages. So if you’re an HVAC company and you have AC repair, AC inspection, blah, blah.

And you have little paragraphs like that on your homepage. It’s okay to have the learn more button, but you know, kind of put that contextual link in that paragraph somewhere, you know, so, um, so Google can make the determination and don’t think because it’s in your main nav, that that’s all you need. The main nav and the footer navs and the sidebar navs are pretty much ignored. You know, um, and for a good reason. I mean, if Google had to pay attention to all this shit, they’d have more stuff. But they definitely pay attention to contextual links. They definitely pay attention to, you know, image optimization and I’m not talking exif data. We don’t do exif data in our agency anymore, but we do good titles, good descriptions, good alt tags. We don’t keyword stuff, but they have to do with whatever that image is having to do with. Yeah, intentional. So, um, and another thing is, like you said, pay attention to your internal linking, your internal links, use different variables, use brand variables, use brand keywords, you know, don’t just, you know, say, oh, for web design, I’m going to do web design, web developer. You know, that’s all the anchors I’m going to have, you know, the way you get more keywords is to use more anchors. That’s the bottom line. So you want to rank for more stuff. Do more anchors around that. What you want to and Google, Google sucks at guessing. You know, a lot of the, the side I’m doing it out of right now, they’re ranking for stuff that isn’t even in their realm, it’s just because they’ve got what I call an identity crisis. And a lot of that identity crisis because how they’re doing internal, internal ranking or excuse me, internal anchors. And they’re doing a lot of external links, which I’m not a big external authority link. That used to be a big thing couple years ago, you know, every blog has to have a link to the Wikipedia page or something else around that topic. I don’t do any of that anymore. And there’s a reason for it is because I if I do or am lucky enough to get a backlink to that blog or page, I don’t want to support Wikipedia. I don’t want to support anybody else off of my site. I want it all. So there will be some things that will write a blog about that.

Maybe we’re doing a versus thing. So we’ll do a versus post like Joomla versus WordPress. And I might find another article out there that maybe Neil Patel wrote or somebody else wrote around the same topic. And it’s got a lot of traffic and a lot of juice, whatever juice people call. So I might link to that, but it’s definitely going to be a no follow. I don’t want Google to leave my site to go to Neil’s site. Neil doesn’t need any help. I need the help. So, you know, so.

Think about every time you put a link on your page, somebody’s going somewhere else. I mean, you can call it a consumer, you can call it a bot, you can call it whatever. So pay attention to those links. If you have a learn more, well, what are they learning more? Because remember, Google can’t read. Google doesn’t remember that it picked this paragraph about this web design, and that’s the learn more. You kind of have to dumb it down for Google, or for all the search engines. We talk about Google, but they’re all the same. You know, if you want to, if you have a web design paragraph and you wanted to go to your web design page, do a web design link in the contextual and then do a learn more to the web design page. Totally fine. But you got to think about it differently because the consumer is going to click on the learn more because they’re there. They’re reading, you know, but bots are, they’re not going to say, Oh, Hey, this learn more goes to the web design. So I’m going to give some more keywords to the web design page because of this learn more anchor.

Jesse Dolan: I really like that. You’re, I mean, you get the internal linking, right? By focusing on the anchor links, like you’re saying. You get the keywords within the anchor text, and then you’re helping to identify that page that you’re linking to with the anchor text. I think it’s a great one stop, as far as if you’re picking signals and what’s a strong thing to focus on. Heck yeah. Heck yeah, that’s a great one. Let’s flip that around. Are there things that you see that are common that you would tell people to avoid, that people are maybe still doing it today or new sites to come across. You’re like, what the hell are you doing? Why are people still preaching this? Anything like that, you’d want to holler out to people to say, don’t do this.

Terry Samuels: Yeah, I think, I think, um, titles, descriptions, and headers are people are still, you know, if I’m on a, my Dallas plumber page and my H one is Dallas plumber, come on, you have to put more thought process in that you have to make it more grammarly correct, grammarly correct. Um, you have to make it more relevant to the page, the topic of the page. That’s the first thing I tell you. I teach this and I harp this in my class so much. What are the very first things Google sees about that page? URL, title, description, my schema, and then the h1. Okay, so if those two or those three or those four aren’t in line about what this page is about and the topic of this page, then it’s either going to get ignored or it’s going to be not indexed. I think that’s the biggest thing. People still think that they can be haphazard on the H1, the title and description. You read the title and the title’s like, gibberish, gibberish brand. And they wonder why Google changed their title. Well, because Google changed your title because your title sucked. That’s the bottom line. So throw that shit into ChatGPT. Hey, for this page, what are the best titles descriptions? Give me three different H1s, three different titles, three different descriptions, and then you pick and play with them.

That’s one of my favorites. One of the first things I do with new clients is we go out with chat GBT once we personalize it and we pretty much go out and we change every single title description in each one very first thing we do, especially on struggling sites, you know, because that right there is going to get the most bang for the buck while we work on everything else. So, you know, so if I have a, you know, and you’ve seen these stupid fricking titles and descriptions, they’re just like, dude, the hell, you know, Dallas plumber in Dallas, Dallas plumber near me, Saltera. The frick is that? You know, and you wonder why Google wants to change that to make it better for a consumer to understand what this page is about so you get the click. And it’s all about getting the click. You know, so I spent a lot of times in the SERP results. What is Google seeing that is mostly different? So even though Joe Plummer has this stuff in his you know, website, what is Google showing for this stuff? Same stuff. And we’ll do two separate spreadsheets and then we’ll kind of combing and say, okay, well, these are the first 10 pages Google hates because they changed the title, the description, you know, they added some other stuff, they added in a location that should have been there, some other stuff like that. Or the stuff that Google changed was completely wrong.

You know, maybe they changed the Dallas page to Plano because you happen to mention that on your Dallas page that you also do these other areas. Stop doing that. If it’s a Dallas page, it’s a Dallas page. Don’t put a link to Plano or Richardson to, you know, all these other places. This person came to you because they’re in Dallas. They don’t give a shit about all these other fricking locations and neither does Google. So don’t put them on the page. You know, so again, strict silos.

You know, I get so, I get so animated about people that have, oh, these are my 40 fricking areas I service and that’s on every single city page. What are you doing? You know, put it on your main service page, but don’t put it on the individual city page.

Jesse Dolan: Like what you’re saying, particularly on the H1s, something we always tell people is if you think about it, I know we don’t read them as much anymore, but like a newspaper, right? Like your main headline on that newspaper, it can’t just have a sexy keyword. Like it needs to make sense. I need to be able to read it and say, yeah, I’m in the right spot, or yeah, I want to read more or keep going. And especially if you’re a marketer or an agency person or an SEO, like if you read your own H1 and you’re like, oh yeah, I wouldn’t like this as a consumer, cause it’s obviously a marketer developed this, right? If it doesn’t pass your own test for that kind of stuff in your. You know, you’re doing a disservice as well. Um, get back to it. It’s gotta be helpful content, right? Helpful, helpful H ones, if you will, things like that needs to make sense. And like you’re saying, that’s why Google will rewrite it. It just wasn’t good. So yeah, great points there, man. Great points. Um, TJ, I see you typing. You got another question you want to throw at Terry quick here?

TJ Elder: Yeah, if we have time, we had a question from Brandon.

Terry Samuels: Plenty of time, don’t worry about it.

TJ Elder: Awesome. Yeah, we had a question from Brandon on our team. How do you recommend businesses address the EEAT guidelines from Google within their on-page strategy?

Terry Samuels: Again, I think it depends on the words that you use. So we stopped using the word about and started using trust. So, why trust us? Not the about us page, it’s the trust us page. And again, EEAT also is in the line with link builder. So that’s a lot of, and a lot of people I tell people know I’m not a link builder. We do it, but if somebody asks me about links, I send them to Clint. I send them to all kinds of other people. But as far as EAT goes, as far as content, we just make sure that we are the authority. We have the expertise. We are the voice. You know, where you don’t have to leave our website to go to somebody else’s website to find out information you’re searching for because we know what you’re searching for. We’re tracking it, we know. And so.

And we’re asking the proper questions, whether it be through FAQs or whether it be through writing a specific piece of content if it gets enough searches or queries. But I think a lot of things with EEAT is just that. Again, I think it’s super important, especially for the content side. I don’t know, again, because I’m not a link builder, but it kind of makes sense that if you get an authoritative link to your website or page, that’s going to be a help.

But that’s been that way for 10 years. That’s hasn’t changed. So, um, I haven’t studied too much on EEAT just because we’ve already, we’ve all, we’ve all done it that way, at least from our side. So, um, we’ve, I’ve always made my clients update their about page, their, you know, medical pages, doctor pages, you know, when I tell them, I’m like, you need to be the, you need to be the authority in this space, you know, if you’re a doctor for a vein network.

We’re going to be the authority on veins, you know, and be ready for that. I’m going to get, I’m getting ready to add a hundred, 200 pages to your website because they’re not going to leave your website to go find out something else about spider veins. We’re going to be the authority. And so I think all of that goes along with, you know, writing content that people are searching for, making sure that it is helpful. I think helpful is more of a thing to pay attention to because I think helpful and expertise and authority kind of goes hand in hand. So if you focus on helpful, it’s going to kind of be eat, so to speak, if you want to categorize that. But again, we don’t put too much emphasis on it except for the authority. I want the website to be the authority site. I want the about page and the doctors and all these people to be who they are. We spend a lot of times on the author pages, on the author boxes, because when I say that Dr. Bob did this article, I want Dr. Bob’s authority to be on that article. You know, it wasn’t written by Salterra, even though it was, but Dr. Bob’s taking the credit for it. So yeah, I think, I think that’s the biggest thing is, you know, it’s like, I hate to say it is like web design speed or website speed. Don’t get too caught up in it. Obviously if your website loads in 13 seconds, you got a freaking problem. But if it loads in three seconds and two seconds. Don’t try to get it down to below a second. It’s not going to help you anymore. It’s going to waste resources.

Jesse Dolan: I almost think go back to being intentional to use that word again too, Terry, right? Like you’re saying like you’re trying to build that trust, trying to get that accreditation back to you, trying to capture really that relevancy. So just, yeah, if you’re making an about us page, like I liked your example there, why do they want to know about us? Well, they want to trust us, okay? So this is a trusting page. That’s the intent of this page, right? Not just to learn about us. We want you to learn about us, to trust us. So just taking those things a step further around that EEAT or EEAT model. Um, yeah, that’s some, that’s some good advice. And I like your saying to temper in it a little bit.

Terry Samuels: Well, especially if you look at, if you look at 90% of analytics, you’re about pages, your second most popular page. So why not make it kick ass? You know, why not make that a selling page? Yeah. Don’t just sit there and say, Oh, okay. Blah, blah, blah. You know, make it a converting page, you know, offer something on that page, make it a page. If, if it’s actually the second most popular page in your web site, that page also better be ready to convert clients because that’s probably the last step is now they, now they saw something, read something, watched a video about something on that page, it’s now going to make them comfortable to take it to the next step. So, and if you look at, you know, true tracking, exit pages, about pages are also the biggest exit page because the about page doesn’t give that warm fuzzy, doesn’t sell that company, doesn’t, you know, make that person want to click and get help from that company.

Jesse Dolan: Good point, man.

Terry Samuels: Um, you know, it’s just, it’s something that people really need, especially nowadays with all the choices out there. If you’re not spending some very ample time on your about page and your owner page doc, you know, I’ve got owners. Oh, I don’t want to pay full shit. You’re getting a page either. I’m going to write it. You’re going to write it. So, you know, it’s up to you, you know, so, um, and we used to do that in schema all the time, but now it’s more important now to not only be in schema, but to be on the public side.

because the public signals perception, you know, if you have the word college and you have the word education and you have the word, you know, experience and you have the word 15 years and all these different signals that Google’s looking for in your about page, that’s going to put you in the head of the class. So don’t ignore the about page. So I tell them same with the 404 page. If your 404 page isn’t ready to convert somebody. Because 404 pages are typically the third most common pages.

Jesse Dolan: Well, think about, again, I said this a few times, I like what you’re saying, and I’ll repeat that phrase because you’re saying a lot of good stuff here, of course. So we have you on, but people forget about those pages that don’t have that next step, you know, where now what should I do? And if you think about somebody browsing, excuse me, browsing your website, we hope as designers and marketers that, yeah, man, they visit my about page. And then of course they’re going to click on the, get a quote up on my top menu.

Well, yeah, if you ever do any screen recording or watch people navigating your website, they don’t follow the path that you hoped they did. Just like grocery stores, you walk in, do I go straight back and get the milk? No, I’ll zigzag and wander around. It doesn’t matter what they thought I would do. Um, and so if it’s an about us page or an example, I always use this like your thank you page. Hey, thank you. We’ll get in touch shortly. Well, give them something else to do on that page, right? Maybe pre buy something or learn more or visit my freaking social media. Like whatever it is. And about us page is a great example here of to convert or have an X action or tell them where to go next. What do you want them to do? Don’t leave it up to them. Don’t make them think they will if they need to, but at least give them a default option on what to do next, a big, big red button at the bottom, whatever it is. Right. So great point.

Terry Samuels: Yep, 100%. I mean, I got, that’s why I said, I mean. Yep. Yeah. My, my 404 page, I’ve gotten three leads so this far. So this year so far just for my 404. So, you know, put a form on it, put a, put a fricking number on it. You know, don’t just say, Oh, you hit a four or four page. Cause they’re, they’re leaving. They’re bailing, you know, put links to other stuff, you know, Hey, you might’ve been meaning the web design side or whatever, or Hey, just send us a question. You know? So, um, yeah, don’t forget the know, what we call the forgotten pages about 404, even thank you pages, stuff like that.

Jesse Dolan: Perfect. Last question I have here, Terry, and then TJ, I’ll throw it to you if there’s anything to follow up on, but if, give you the opportunity, if there’s anything you wanted to expand on with, yeah, that new late breaking news here, the March core update, whatever phrase we’re going to call it, I don’t think anybody’s officially labeled it yet or nothing’s caught out there that I’m aware of at least, but any other parting thoughts you want to give people on that outside of just chill, don’t do anything drastic yet.

Terry Samuels: Um, yeah, chill, don’t do anything, but also remember, like you mentioned before, it’s not just about spam. I think they’re going to be looking at the stuff they always look at. Like content, like contents bad. If you’ve, if you still have pages with three or 400 words on them, you got to triple those because it’s, it’s a waste of time for the bots. Again, you don’t want somebody crawling one paragraph when they can be crawling 10 paragraphs. You know, so pay attention and understand that this update is going to be more than just spam. They’re calling it spam. They’re calling it clean up the Internet. But you also have to remember and take it with a grain of salt that Google can’t read, you know, so it’s looking for certain signals and we’ll find out eventually what the signals are. But you also have to remember too that Google does also have an AI tool. So again, anything with Google I take with a grain of salt.

Yeah, people are getting some penalties and stuff, which are going to be interesting to see. But for the most part, I don’t think this is going to be as big as the helpful content, other ones that they had. I think it’s definitely going to go out after comp. Obviously, if your site map grew a thousand pages in the past 30 days and you’re not a news site, Google’s probably going to target you. But if you added 30 pages in the past 30 days, Google’s probably not going to target you. Now if it’s shit content and you just did an automatic load from, you know, ChatGPT to WordPress blog and you didn’t have any interaction with human or whatever in between, then I hate to say it, you deserve to get pounded. You know, so, um, you have to take and, and spend more time on not just content, but why this content, what are the goals of this content and you’ll do amazing things and you won’t have to, like I said, I’m just checked this now, I still haven’t had nothing kind of, you know, hit me yet. So, um, at least the two, two sides, I’ve got two sites that literally have. They’re both six months old and they literally have 10,000 plus pages on them in six months. So, you know, if I am going to get hit, it should be those. Um, but every page had, every page had a human interaction between. So it was not auto loaded. You know, that wasn’t the test. The test was just the original test was to see how quick I get stuff indexed. Um, so now I’m going to leave them. I was actually getting ready to take them down next week until this update came out, but now I’m going to see, okay, well, come on, Google. I even, I even redid Omega index or did pre-index. And so I get Google to see them to see if I can get the penalty. So I really, you know, and that’s the kind of, you know, a lot of techy people like me. You know, we kind of want to be penalized so we can go reverse engineer it, you know, kind of teach whether this is what we found, this is what we didn’t find. This is what we think Google’s guessing at because Google’s guessing most of the time. So, but yeah, you’re right. It’ll be interesting to see the next couple of weeks. You know, especially some of these bigger sites that I saw today, they’re getting hit, but they’re just, again, they’re fricking spammy sites. They should be hit. So I want to see something that’s, you know, Bob’s plumber in Dallas, Texas, you know, that’s been getting AI driven blogs get hit. Not for Bob. Sorry, Bob.

Jesse Dolan: Well, and then we’ll, yeah. We’ll all learn by mistakes then really at that point, right? That’s a great way to learn. We all know that anybody who’s been around the block we know more than once. Yep.

Terry Samuels: Well, and that’s the way we used to learn. When there were penalties, especially link building penalties, that’s how we learned. Google didn’t tell us what we did wrong. They never will. But you go out and you find yourself and say, well, I don’t know if I would have done it that way. Okay, so let’s do this differently or remove that or whatever. But yeah, I mean, the stuff that I saw today before we got on the call, it was junk shit content anyways. Like 500 words, you know, so, um, I’m happy that Google’s doing this because I think this is, this is a major problem. This, you know, AI driven content that’s not helpful or it’s not providing a purpose. So I’m hoping people again, take it more seriously. Don’t just think that you can write a hundred blogs about, you know, why you’re the best hot water heater installer in Dallas, cause that’s not going to, that’s not what it’s for. So.

Jesse Dolan: I am too, I don’t know if it’s nostalgia, but there is something about just hearing manual penalties, manual actions, like the jumping into search console to see what you got there. It’s been a while, so I don’t know. I don’t know.

Terry Samuels: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, I keep checking my email. I’m like, okay, nope, not yet. Keep going, baby. Yeah, still not yet.

TJ Elder: Yeah, Terry, keep us posted if you see one on one of those mega 10,000 page sites, okay?

Terry Samuels: Yeah, definitely. I’m actually following a site right now that I put into my system this morning. Um, cause they did get hit. Um, and it’s, I just want to see what they, I can see what they got hit for, but. I just want to see there’s anything different, you know, but it’s, um, the bad thing is, is I don’t have access to their search console to see which one’s felt the fallen out of index is like your first clue, something’s wrong. And it might not be wrong unless you, like you said, you always do the re verification or the re validation. And once you re validated, when it comes back and said, yes, it’s validated clear, but we still had some pages with problems. Those are the ones you need to pay attention to. So don’t just think if you have, you know, indexed or crawled, but not indexed or, you know, crawled, but there’s a couple of them, but go in there and hit the validate button before you do anything and the stuff that comes back after the validate. Those are the ones you’re going to worry about.

Jesse Dolan: Anybody listening and watching too, if you haven’t done that with Terry’s talking, don’t expect, don’t sit there and wait for your validation to come through and say, like, you’re good, right? Like, you click the button, you check back every few days and just see what’s happening. It ain’t going to be a fast process for you. TJ, we have compromised Terry for a heck of a long time here in this episode. Do you have any final questions for him? Otherwise, we should wrap it up. Let him quit drinking for the day, so.

Terry Samuels: Well, no, I mean, I’ve still got a few minutes. So if there’s another question, I have no problem. Yeah, I mean, I love your group. So whatever it takes.

Jesse Dolan: I’m going to have to pour another one if we keep going. So it’s half for me too, Terry.

Terry Samuels: I’m going to wait until after my 4 o’clock.

TJ Elder: I don’t think I have anything else that wouldn’t open up a whole can of worms and keep us on for another hour and kind of like veer us off to a different topic. So I’ll wrap it up from myself and the audience.

Terry Samuels: We’ll have to have him back again.

Jesse Dolan: Yeah, no, Terry, you have to come on again. You’re the reigning, uh, appearance king for how many times you’ve been on here compared to the others, so we’ll keep you the lead. Don’t worry about that. Um, real quick, Terry, you want to just rattle off, you know, Salterra spring training, tell everybody the things we mentioned earlier, how they can get ahold of you, how they can learn more on these, uh, these various things that you own or in front of.

Terry Samuels: Um, yeah, obviously the conference coming up April 5th, 6th and 7th is SEO spring Um, if you use coupon code Terry 24, it gives you, you know, like $400 off. Um, but the coupon codes are expiring this weekend. So just fair warning. Um, and then is my teaching class. Um, I don’t do courses. I do live classes. Um, could I hold people accountable in these classes? Um, but I think that, um, between those two things, you know, if you’re interested in expanding this business or, you know, especially around on page and SEO and schema, I mean, spring training is going to have four of the top five schema people in the entire planet in one spot. So the only one that couldn’t make it’s in the UK, but everybody else is there. So if you want to come and spend some time in the, in the on page room you’re going to get to see stuff that just blow your mind. So, um, but those are my two little plugs. Um, Salterra site, anybody can get ahold of me whenever you want. Um, I’m an open book. Um, I do a lot of white label. So if you need help with certain things, I’m happy to help you. Um, I do a lot of audits. I love forensic auditing, which is basically sites that have lost traffic or keywords. I like to figure out what happened and why. And I can tell you 90% of the stuff I see is on page. It’s not links. So pay more attention to on page if you’re a business owner and you’re sitting on the couch watching TV. That’s what you should be doing while you’re sitting on the couch watching TV, is checking your on page, making sure your silos are set, making sure your anchor tech ratios are solid. Make sure you’re not fricking just linking. Click here, learn more, all that crap that WordPress and these other systems do default wise. Just take more, just take more pride in on-page. You’ll see a huge, amazing result. 10 times what you’ll see link building. And I’ll argue that fact with any.

Jesse Dolan: I’m sure there’s plenty of people that would jump on you and argue with you, Terry, saying, all you need is link building, which is fine. And I’m not going to say those people are right or wrong, but what I do know is as we go forward with Google, they’re constantly looking for this, let’s just call it on page related stuff, right? So the writing’s on the wall, links are important, that’s not gone, but it’s not a one trick pony going forward for the next 10 years. You got to have a great website. And I think that’s what you’re on page, is we’re talking about is your website, right? The things on your website, on your page.

Terry Samuels: Exactly Yeah 100% so Well, good deal. Well, thanks for having me on I love you guys. Just let me know if you want me back. Reach out to me You know if you need help if you if you want to come to the conference and you have some hiccups or you’re on the fence Come to the conference I guarantee you’ll freaking find some good value in it.

Jesse Dolan: It’s pretty badass. It’s a good time.

Terry Samuels: You know, I know you’re too busy to go. That’s crazy. I still think you should put TJ on a freaking plane and send him. But, you know, or Bob even send Bob. Bob doesn’t do anything.

Jesse Dolan: Get on down there, get on down there and represent right. Um, no, I just, for everybody firsthand. And I think if we, I’m thinking back on the episode we do with Michael Rayburn a few months ago, we, we just lavished your conference with all kinds of praise on that too, Terry, plenty of people, but if any, just somebody Google SEO spring training, you’re going to see tons of reviews, tons of great stuff. We love it. Um, and yeah, you put on a great conference there, Terry, thanks for jumping on, uh, for everybody watching or listening, all the things we talked about today, links to Terry’s sites and information. We’re going to have that in the show notes. You can check that out if you didn’t write it down. Don’t worry. Go to check out this episode. We’ll have it all there for you.

Terry Samuels: Thank you guys. You guys are always awesome and professional and everything else. So maybe we’ll do an SEO spring training, Minnesota.

Jesse Dolan: Now you’re talking in the summer, not in the winter though. People ain’t going to come in winter, right? So.

Terry Samuels: In the summer, in the summer with a fishing trip with a fricking, yeah. So definitely.

Jesse Dolan: North, let’s do it.

Terry Samuels: That’d be awesome. So well, thank you gentlemen for having me.

Jesse Dolan: And yeah, Terry, thanks for jumping on. Really appreciate it and catch you next time.

All right, everyone, I hope you enjoyed that episode. Always great talking with Terry. Really appreciated TJ being a part of this episode and the broader Intrycks SEO team. I really like this format, and I really like a lot of the things that Terry was sharing today. Hopefully all of you watching and listening were able to pull out some good nuggets, some good action items from what Terry was talking about and the discussions that we had. If you like this, we’d like to hear from you, check out scroll to the bottom, click the link for reviews, submit a question, whatever it is, if you’re enjoying this show, maybe you got an idea for a future guest, anything. We’d love to hear from you. Go to loca and hopefully you enjoyed this episode, catch you on the next one. Take care.

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