Killer Keith Conversion – Crafting Above The Fold With Keith Evans – 175

Keith Evans: You have to obviously have the benefit with the action together, and the why portion really is speaking to their needs. What makes you different? What makes you better? And those are a lot of times those little extra trust factors.

Jesse Dolan: It's not so much some of the other stuff you're talking is the phraseology, the words, and a lot of effort into that. This is literally all visual. Put it on there and take a look at it. How does it present? How does it look? We're not choosing words here in this slide. And I think this is an area a lot of people will overlook.

Hey, everybody. Got a great episode here for you today. We're talking with Keith Evans. Keith was on our show about a year ago, let's see, episode 129, talking about improve Google click-through rate for better website click-through rate, and some of the psychology behind what goes into that. We got Keith back on again today. We're going to take a little bit deeper dive into some of the psychology and we're going to be talking here. Killer Keith Conversion: Crafting Above the Fold. Check it out. Keith Evans from UpHero dropping some knowledge on getting people to convert once they land on your page. Welcome back to Local SEO Tactics where we bring you tips and tricks to get found online. I'm your host, Jesse Dolan, here with returning guest Mr. Keith Evans. How you doing, Keith?

Keith Evans: Hello, internet world.

Jesse Dolan: Superhero from UpHero. I don't know if you ever use that, but you're free to use that from now on, Keith. That's all fine. Got you back, Keith.

Keith Evans: When I picked out colors for my company, I'm like, "There's no one that's doing purple and turquoise. There's no superhero doing that." So, I'm like, "That's it. Purple and turquoise."

Jesse Dolan: There is now. There is now. You just got to find the right space for that hero. You were on, I have it pulled up here for everybody listening or watching, episode 1 29 about a year ago talking about click-through rate, the psychology behind driving traffic. It's a great episode. You're an expert.

Keith Evans: Thanks. Yeah. It was a lot of fun.

Jesse Dolan: Yeah, it was super fun.

Keith Evans: I think we might have had some, I don't remember if it was FBoy Island was on there or something about fantasy dating, something. I don't know. I'm easily distracted.

Jesse Dolan: A little teaser for everybody. There's some salacious content in there in addition to nerding out on some digital marketing. But I had known Keith, met at a mastermind in person, worked together on some projects previous. Keith was recommended by somebody. And just a great professional, extremely knowledgeable, was happy to have you on about a year ago talking CTR and this psychology, which I think you have some fascinating stuff there. You're in multiple Facebook groups sharing this kind of stuff. So, truly an expert in this area, but also more broadly, of course, websites, SEO, digital marketing, local SEO, things like that. So, excited to have you back on to dive into this topic again.

Keith Evans: Yeah, thank you.

Jesse Dolan: Thanks for coming on, man.

Keith Evans: Yeah. This is my passion. This is what I do every day, helping small businesses, right?

Jesse Dolan: Yeah.

Keith Evans: People just don't really realize that words and the images and what you say, they're reading it, it really can influence people to call you, to buy, to click.

Jesse Dolan: Yeah. Yeah. Getting found, pure SEO is one thing, but then the decision to patronize that business or reach out or provide them some information to get into their stream or whatever, that doesn't happen automatically. And you have to have some tact and I personally really think your advice and your approach is great and you're fun and this'll be entertaining and interesting. No pressure or anything.

Keith Evans: And I dance. We could do some dancing if you want. We could do that.

Jesse Dolan: We'll mix in some audio in post production there to really spice it up for you.

Keith Evans: Maybe some ABBA or the Village People. I don't know.

Jesse Dolan: We can do that. I'll send you a playlist. You backed up there? What does your shirt say? There's a warning on there.

Keith Evans: Oh, yeah. You read it. Can you read it?

Jesse Dolan: "I'm the SEO the SEJ warned you about." Which, it's true. SEJ, Search Engine Journal. What? I guess not always gospel if you're trying to be white hat, black hat. And you're on their hit list it looks like, right?

Keith Evans: Yeah. Well, I make fun of myself. I make fun of others. If you're a small business owner, the Search Engine Journal is this one of those that it's a little bit of hype. They do have some good authors, some good writers, but eventually there's a sellout. They're not always going to tell you the truth. And people like me and Jesse, we're behind the scenes, so we're just making little fun.

Jesse Dolan: Hey, I don't know if you've caught my hat is gray in that same tongue in cheek. You can't just do things only the right way. All's fair in love and SEO. Definitely some things to avoid. But yeah, I think some of the tactics you deploy wouldn't get published maybe on the front page of Search Engine Journal. And I don't mean that in a negative way, but I mean that in an advanced tactic and strategy way. Some of the things that we share on these episodes, are they black hat according to Google? Well, yeah, I guess so. But they're the things that …

Keith Evans: And this is the reality, Mr. Business Owner. Any type of manipulation is against their terms and conditions.

Jesse Dolan: Right. That's where the tongue in cheek part is, right? How do you even know?

Keith Evans: How do you even beat that?

Jesse Dolan: Everything is gray. Everything's gray. So, anyways, regardless of all that, making fun of yourself, making fun of the industry, making fun of resources, you have a model. You have a formula. You have some ideas that work. You're on here today. We want to talk deeper into this area of the psychology. Again, we're going to get into some SEO stuff that people can steal out of here, but I would say the main focus what we want to talk about here today is once you're on that page, or once you have a visitor on your page, that part of the interaction to turn them into a lead or get opted in, things like that. So, turning the stage over to you, Keith, to start walking us down this path. Again, frame of mind. Somebody's on your website. A few things, I guess, before I do turn it over completely. We're going to talk above the fold. For everybody listening, I might say that a lot.

Keith might say that. What we're talking is kind of like that newspaper reference. If you got the front page sitting in front of you, the above the fold in the newspaper, the top half. Speaking digitally on websites, whether you're on a big screen like your desktop or a small screen on mobile, we're talking about the very first thing you see at the top of the page you're visiting. The first thing you see, the most important impact. Definitely important for Google and for the things that we do above the fold for signals and SEO. But even more today we're going to dive into the human being part, seeing that stuff for the first time, first impressions, things like that, and what gets people to go further. So, with that really rolled out, Keith, where would you like to start?

Keith Evans: Well, I can share my screen here and I can just go over some stuff. And as slides come up, we can talk about them and interact and then people, get them thinking about what they really need to do to get more calls, get the conversions. That's what you want. You want sales. You want results. Because SEO's great. "Hey, you're number two. You're in the Google map." But why am I not getting phone calls? That's what we're going to fix today.

Jesse Dolan: Right. Which is great.

Keith Evans: So, can you see the conversion rate optimization I have up?

Jesse Dolan: Yep.

Keith Evans: CRO is what we're talking about. So, you take a look at something like this and the first thing you think is, "Okay, what are they selling here, Jesse?" What is this? What's going on?

Jesse Dolan: Well, entertainment, friendship. I guess I have a little bit of cursory knowledge knowing maybe where some of this goes, but yeah, I don't know. Fun.

Keith Evans: And that's that emotional creation. And even though Jake's Sprinkler and Landscape, he can say, "I'm just a landscaper. I know how to dig ditches. I install sprinklers. I put sod in." But what does this mom want over here on the right with the plate of food? She's with her family. She's celebrating. They want to enjoy their outdoor space. So, that's what a professional like me does. And we say, "Hey, listen. Apple isn't just selling you a computer. They're selling you a luxury computer. They're getting you to think different." That's exactly how you make your brand different, by appealing to the emotion, the heart. And so that's exactly what you see above the fold here. You look at the logo, upper left hand corner. I know exactly where I am. I see their hours, their phone, services. You get the headline. People are definitely going to see that first. We really are trying to pull on the heartstrings and then get them down below to say, "Look it, you can have all of these benefits. Just click right there." It's not just, "Oh, I'm selling landscaping." No, you're not. It's more than that.

Jesse Dolan: Yeah. Why did they want the landscaping?

Keith Evans: So, in order to really know what you do, whether you're a plumber, you're an HVAC, it doesn't really matter, swinging a hammer, installing pipe, whatever, is you truly need to know your audience. Who is really behind the computer, and what do they truly want? What is their end goal? Because you have to appeal to that. And then think about, "Well, why are they on this page?" As many times when you buy an ad on Facebook or Instagram or even off of Google Ads, don't just send it to the homepage because they had a specific need or a concern. And what you wanted to do was give them a specific landing page where they can then convert.

Hot water goes out. You want a specific hot water ad and a specific hot water heater landing page. Let me just click on here. Once they're on that page, we obviously want to focus on, what do you want them to do? But more importantly, this is where that persuasive language is really going to focus on the why, right? If you are appealing to a male audience, you're probably going to want a male picture on that hero above the fold. If you really think about their true needs and then how your offer will satisfy it, you're more likely going to get them to say yes and click to learn more and click to call and go from there.

Jesse Dolan: On here you have the last two bullet points, what do I want them to do and why should they do it? For all the business owners, marketing managers, listening, can you translate that into, what would I want them to do on my website and why should they do it? Are we click to learn more, click to get a quote? Or do I want them to make a phone call? Is there anything you can drop for maybe what things to do and why should they do it? And maybe you're going to get to some of this in a little bit, but help us understand what that means.

Keith Evans: Yeah, a little bit. But this is very simple language. And you're like, "Well, of course I want them to call you." But wait a minute. Is your phone number clearly seen on the screen, right? Did you say the word Call Now, and then it has 505 dash, dash, dash? You have to obviously have the benefit with the action together. And the why portion really is speaking to their needs. What makes you different? What makes you better? And those are a lot of times those little extra trust factors. And it can be simple as, "Since 1990. We have 20 trucks. We serve the greater three county area. We are certified. We have warranties." That's the why that would really motivate them. But if you don't really have your phone number quite obviously there, then you're really not going to get phone calls. And they're like, "Oh, they keep filling out the form." Well, guess what? The button, right?

Jesse Dolan: Right.

Keith Evans: So, that's more about the, what do I really want them to do? And that's actually one of the first questions I ask people is, "Hey, Mr. Business Owner, what do you want them to do? Do you want calls? Do you want them to fill out a form? Do you want them just to book right onto your calendar?"

Jesse Dolan: Right. Nice. Yeah. I think that's something people need to think about. That's great.

Keith Evans: And that really means thinking from the customer's point of view. I'm going to tell all you guys right now, stop looking at your competitor's websites. Because they suck. They almost all suck. You need to think about, what does your customer really want on that process? What's their common need? And if you really can focus on them, then you'll be able to focus on why they need you. Customers don't care who you are. I pulled all the different Boise dentists in the market and this is the first thing you see. So, there's three different websites here. Or pardon me, four different websites. And you'll see that I have some highlighted in red. They start talking about themselves right away. "We're so good," and, "We do this," and, "We would love to have you," and, "We maintain," and, "We treat." Nobody cares about that. I have a toothache. Tell me, do you have emergency service? Are you available right now? I need to get in for an appointment. Don't start bragging about we, we, we, we, we. Because again, no one really cares about that.

Jesse Dolan: I saw something on Facebook with just a local car dealer here. And kind of what you're saying, that same thought resonated with me in the last couple weeks. It was like, "Check out the newest editions to our inventory." Just very generic, whatever. And I read that and I was thinking about some of this conversion stuff and exactly what you said. Like, "Great. You're proud of the new vehicles that you have on your lot, but where's the, 'Picture yourself in this convertible,' or, 'This is a great truck for hauling firewood,' or whatever the hell the thing is?" It was just static.

Keith Evans: Right. And what do you think is on the mind of someone? "Oh, it's affordable and 30 miles per gallon," right?

Jesse Dolan: Right.

Keith Evans: "Whoa, save on gas." So, now that you've met my need, the true need, now you can say, "Tri-cities largest dealer of Chevy trucks and Dodge," or whatever, right?

Jesse Dolan: Right.

Keith Evans: Then you can talk about the trust items. But really it's more focused on, your customer has a problem. They have a challenge. They have a need. So, try to address that in the above the fold.

Jesse Dolan: Yeah. And like you were saying too, this language where it serves them and not as boastful of you as the business, right?

Keith Evans: Yeah.

Jesse Dolan: You're not trying to impress anybody with what you have or what you can do. To an extent. Obviously we want that impression, but you're not boasting. Your providing the solutions

Keith Evans: So, a small business owner will say, "Well, where do I put the we at?" Once you have addressed what the need and the concern is, now you can reassure them with, "We've been doing this since 1977. We do this." It's not the main headlines. It's a little bit further down.

Jesse Dolan: And would you say there's been some Google updates and stuff, and I don't want to get into too much late breaking news and things like that, like what's helpful, what's not, and the intents of pages. Do you think that that matters for where things are geared towards solving problems, helping people versus promoting myself? Do you think there's a tinge to any of that? Or does this just happen to be where maybe overlapping things that are just great for consumers happen to be intersected?

Keith Evans: I think that you can have a great on-page experience, keep them on the page, have a video, talk to them, right?

Jesse Dolan: Sure.

Keith Evans: Don't talk at them. "We do this. You want this. Order this now." But if you say how you can solve their problem, now it's an easier relationship, right?

Jesse Dolan: Yup.

Keith Evans: With that in mind, then that's where that trust factor's going to happen, that people are naturally going to go onto a website. And this is exactly why there's always going to be get rich quick schemes. Oh my gosh. Multi-level marketing. It's just this easy. Why? Why are humans naturally going to trust each other? It's because part of our survival of the species. There's no way that humans will naturally... How do we know that that red fruit is good? How do we know that that water over there is good for us? Well, our neighbors drank from it and they didn't die. I guess we should go drink from that water too.

Jesse Dolan: Seems to be good.

Keith Evans: Yeah. People are going to give in to their impulses, and this is why there's always diet ads and there's always going to be the bigger better thing. Because we believe what they say. You just have to sort through the bullshit part, right?

Jesse Dolan: Yup. Right.

Keith Evans: You just need to temp them. So, if you give them just enough information, especially that trigger the reaction. Think about it. Jake's Landscaping Company. If you were really searching for sprinklers or sod grass installation, and then you saw it was talking about fun and talking about family, that's like, "Wow, you really drew me in to I want to do business with you.:

Jesse Dolan: Yeah. That's the space I want to be. You're showing me a transformation. You're speaking to that transformation.

Keith Evans: And that's where the human appeals, you want to have them in those headlines. And then have that call to action. So, many times it's that loss aversion they call it in conversion, which is, that's the sales psychology of, "Don't do this. Don't get ripped off. Call today." I don't want to lose money. I should move forward with you. Or people want to look healthier, younger. "And you don't want to wait anymore. Get my free quote." And then now. The impulsiveness. One thing I always ask my small business owners too, I'm like, "Will you take calls at 7:00 AM? Will you take a call at 7:00 PM? Will you take a call Saturday morning?" And I'm like, "Now, really, I want to know. Because I can advertise you and promote you as open late, open early, talk to an expert now. Your ads when they run on Facebook and on Google Ads can be targeted at certain times of the day so that you can serve them." So, that's really important too.

Jesse Dolan: I like it. And I like your one in there and your example. For everybody, if you're just listening, obviously check this out on YouTube as well. You can see the slides here and the presentation along with it that we're talking over and that Keith has shown. But the one in the middle, "Look 10 years younger." That sounds so much better than, "You look pretty old and maybe we should help that out," or things like that. Just you're speaking towards they want to look younger. They don't want to not look old. And does it sound like I'm splitting hairs? Yeah.

Keith Evans: Yeah. You want people to be thinking of their future self, their better self. "Gosh, I wish I could lose 20 pounds. I wish I didn't look fat," right?

Jesse Dolan: Right.

Keith Evans: Okay, we're going to tease that in that headline. I love this on the right is that people are going to see the bigger headline first. They're going to read that. So, you have to be aware that when you put your website together, humans are going to see the big words first, and especially if it's high contrast. Now, what I mean by high contrast is thinking of a bumblebee or a hornet. It's black on yellow. It's that Caterpillar logo. It's that DEWALT. It's danger. It's related to construction. But it's also, you see it and it gets your attention. Just like a stop sign. It's red. It's an octagon. It has white letters. So, when you use a very clear headline, your human's going to see that and read it first. And then the graphic that we have up here goes into smaller items. And the very last, the smallest font, which is actually the first thing at the top of the page, it says, "And you're going to read this last." And it's true, right?

Jesse Dolan: Yeah. I challenge everybody. Check this out and see if you don't read that last. For sure. You're just going to. Which is also interesting.

Keith Evans: There's something else... Yeah?

Jesse Dolan: You said the first thing, you'll read this first, high contrast. It's not at the top either, but you're still drawn to it for those reasons.

Keith Evans: Right. Exactly. High contrast, black on white. So, the other thing that's funny too is arrows or directions. Someone's reading something and if you point the arrow to where it has to go, they're going to look there. So, even if you told them, "Hey, I want you to look left," but the arrow points right, their eyes are going to go to the right. It's so damn funny.

Jesse Dolan: No, that's good.

Keith Evans: We talked a little bit about that visual hierarchy. Obviously having the most important thing, the main benefit. When they come to your site, what's the main benefit they're going to get? And you really need to think on this. I went through 50 different HVAC websites in the greater Boise area. I really only came across two or three that had a good competitive advantage. This was really shocking. One of these websites, they are businesses. They are established in 1909. That would make them the oldest HVAC company in Boise. Guess where they put that information at?

Jesse Dolan: Way down on the-

Keith Evans: Not on the homepage. I know right now what had happened. If you look on camera, Jesse is freaking out. If you have a competitive advantage, scream it from the rooftop. They put it on the About page and they put it at the top, a small little bold. And all they said was, "Since 1909." They didn't even say, "Boise's oldest." How long someone's been doing something, the experience, is a huge benefit and it motivates a consumer to want to buy from you. Remember, on your headlines you really want to answer, what does my customer really want? And then help direct that to them. So, here's a website more tailored for women. We have their logo in the upper left hand corner. We've got a pretty girl. She's looking to the headline. That's something to key in on. Did you notice that, Jesse, where her eyes are going?

Jesse Dolan: Yeah, that's slick. Okay.

Keith Evans: When humans look at another human... And we will. I mean, I already know that Jessie's looking at this blonde girl thinking, "Man, I want to be on vacation with her because she's walking the beach somewhere." But humans will look at other humans. It's just natural. She's looking at the main headline. So, what does that do for you?

Jesse Dolan: You got to go over there.

Keith Evans: Well, if she's looking at it, I'm going to look at it too. And so the headline says, "Finally, regular treatments you can afford." Oh, what a relief. I want regular treatments and I want it to be affordable. Finally. Finally, I don't need to look anymore. I found what I want.

Jesse Dolan: That is so, I mean, not to be too giddy, but psychologically, just instead of saying, "Treatments available, great prices," or whatever, which sounds so garage saley or just slap it together, this is something that has intent and purpose. And when you read it, and especially with the context and the page, it just has such a different connotation. And are we saying the same things at the end of the day? Yeah. But which one's going to get people to call you or to click that button. This stuff is gold. I think this is spectacular.

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Keith Evans: We're going to talk a little bit about how to use the bullets and what to do on these different headline tips. One of the main things to think about is the word because. It is one of the most powerful words in the English language. And I'll tell you why. When Jesse was three years old and he wanted a Fudgsicle from his mom, or go down to the Fancy Freeze, say, "Ma, that's what I want," and she's like, "No, we can't." And know what he said? "Why?" And her answer was, "Because." When your parent tells you because, you can't fight that. You can't fight because. It's just direct from God practically, right?

Jesse Dolan: Yes. No argument there.

Keith Evans: It's a commandment. Because. So, what do you do? You can now use because in your headline. Finally. We just had that example previously. "Finally what I've always been looking for. Oh, that's what I want." Finally, low cost insurance. Because you want it. Because you need it. Why? Because.

Jesse Dolan: Period.

Keith Evans: The other thing too is the, "It's about time."

Jesse Dolan: That's good.

Keith Evans: Tying in where they're at today. And on our graphic here, we have a cartoon of someone looking in the mirror. They really want to be thinking about their future self, their better self. "I make more money. I'm handsome. I've lost 20 pounds. I feel good about myself. It's about time you lost weight. It's about time you get your crap together." When you've put in that kind of... And these are just simple tips. Just drop it in. "It's about time you save money on heating costs." Oh yeah, I want to save money on my heating bill.

Jesse Dolan: That just anchors you to right now. And then you're looking forward, right? That statement, I think that's a-

Keith Evans: Exactly.

Jesse Dolan: That's a great three word statement.

Keith Evans: And then you're more motivated to stay on the page. You have supporting headlines, supporting information. What else are you going to do. You're going to dangle a carrot with maybe an offer, a free quote. "Do you need an in person estimate? Do you need financing?" You need to be thinking about their needs. In general, most humans want... This is just obvious. "I want it now. I want it yesterday. I want it fast." And it has to be easy. I don't want to work. That's why I want get rich quick. Seriously. I should just buy Bitcoin. Hell, just buy Bitcoin. It's easy. It's fast. And what else? It's affordable.

Jesse Dolan: Affordable.

Keith Evans: So, value was another big thing. When you use any of those words, fast, easy, affordable, that's definitely going to help you quite a bit in your headlines. Think about that happy future, and then make them feel proud of their new self. Like the, "Imagine what you'll look like on the beach, 15 pounds lighter." "Oh yes, I can imagine that. That would be great."

Jesse Dolan: Who was that voice that came in there?

Keith Evans: I don't know. Who knows? That was Jesse's girlfriend from the earlier slide on the beach.

Jesse Dolan: There you go.

Keith Evans: The other thing to think about too is how other people view you. That's why there's people that are somewhat addicted to social media and we got TikTok. How do people think about who you are? So, that can be inquired into headlines too that say, "Okay, whatever your solution is, it really needs to think about the outcome of that desirable change." So, here's an example. "The only presentation software that will make you look like a professional designer."

Jesse Dolan: Oh, that's a great illustration. Yeah.

Keith Evans: "I want that. I need that. Because I have to put together a presentation this weekend." And then what else really makes that headline pop, do you think, Jesse,

Jesse Dolan: "The only presentation software that will make you look like a professional designer?" I like that. Make you look, which hits back to your whole social persona or outward view.

Keith Evans: Yeah. And that making you feel. The little feelings there. But there's one word on there that is-

Jesse Dolan: Yeah. The only.

Keith Evans: ... that really you'll be like, "Oh, yeah. Of course that's it."

Jesse Dolan: The only? Am I guessing right? The only?

Keith Evans: Exactly. Exclusive.

Jesse Dolan: Yes. Fantastic.

Keith Evans: If you offer exclusivity, then no one else can do this. Yup. "The only presentation software that will make you look like a professional designer."

Jesse Dolan: That's powerful.

Keith Evans: Think about how others will view the user. And then whatever the button is, think about action benefit. You really want to put the two together. It can really be as simple as, "Call now for free estimate." Jesse and I have seen a thousand of those, but it still works, because if I take action, call now, what do I get? I get a free estimate, right?

Jesse Dolan: Sure.

Keith Evans: This is a big thing too, is people just can have, it's too technical, too many words. You really need to focus on making it easy and simple for people to consume stuff. This is the reality. If you spend any time on the diarrhea of social media, people are idiots. People are stupid. A lot of this country is still bamboozled by fake news, right?

Jesse Dolan: Sure.

Keith Evans: It's just the world. Look at where Russia is using their propaganda to try to convince people, right?

Jesse Dolan: Yeah.

Keith Evans: It's, make it easy and simple that people understand and then that audience is more likely to buy from you. Also, be aware of font style and the size and the color. Blue might be in your corporate colors, but it's not going to be easy to read on a small screen. "Oh. Well, we like blue and red. We're patriotic." Well, that's great. You do not double dog dare put red ink font on a blue background, okay? That is like 1990. You don't do that. You don't have to bold every word. You really want to bold and use italics on the important action statements. And from an SEO point of view, even Jesse knows this, what do we do with bold?

Jesse Dolan: Keywords, related topics, what's special? Make it special.

Keith Evans: So, if we're talking about hot water heaters, we could say, "Save on hot water heaters today," and that could be bold, the hot water heaters. That's why they came on the page, is because they wanted to save regarding that. The other thing to think about too is how people really read a page. So, I have a graphic here that is sort of like a heat zone. It follows the eyes. Now, it's deliberately backwards in the English western hemisphere. Because I wanted to make a point. This is actually an Arabic website, which you'll notice, where are the people's eyes going, Jesse, on this graphic?

Jesse Dolan: Yeah. Down to the right there.

Keith Evans: Yeah. They're looking at the high contrast. Look it. They're going to look at faces, right?

Jesse Dolan: Mm-hmm.

Keith Evans: Look how they don't really go to the black and white. They definitely see the spaced items. They see the bullets and they're really focused on headlines. Humans are going to chunk and go down a website in layers, just like little cakes, Layers of cake. You might even say that this could be different patterns like pattern like an F, or pattern like a C, the letter C or the shape like a Z, that eye flow. People are lazy. They're going to scroll and they're just going to click and see things that pop off the page. So, how do you clean this up? Don't have too many adjectives on the page. Even adverbs can go. Extra prepositions. This is a big one. About, on the boat, of the hill, next to the river. Oh my gosh. You can say the same thing much shorter by just saying, "The boat next to the river on the lake." Oh-

Jesse Dolan: Now, why are you saying to remove-

Keith Evans: ... shorter and sweeter.

Jesse Dolan: Why are you saying to remove both of those? Just to give people less things to process when they're shorter?

Keith Evans: Yeah, shorter and simple. If you ever work with bad writers or foreign writers or people who are just not good in grammar in general, they'll just use a lot of prepositions. And Mrs. Sundberg taught me the entire list of 89 prepositions in eighth grade, and I can still probably name them all off today. Just look for those things where you're like, "Can I take two prepositions?" Because a preposition is nothing more than an adjective that's helping describe the noun, right?

Jesse Dolan: Sure.

Keith Evans: So, instead of saying, "The boat on the river," you can just say, "The river boat." Oh, okay, that makes sense. It's the river boat.

Jesse Dolan: Right.

Keith Evans: Weak adverbs. Very, quietly. And a lot of those are those words with the L-Y at the end, or they're going to going to be next to the verbs on the page. Really think about any kind of persuasive copy. These are the things you want to help them, entice them. We talked a little bit about this, about the helpful content and helpful information. If it's really good writing, it has a little bit of motion, it has great info, you keep them either laughing, crying, on the edge of their seat. They're going down the article. They're going down the page. They're going to stay on the page. And I'm confident that that's a ranking SEO signal for sure.

Jesse Dolan: Sure. Yeah.

Keith Evans: This really does break it down. On the right hand side, I have a mobile shot of a girl, a graphic at the top, and then it says, "Say goodbye to mascara. Are you ready to toss out that old frustrating mascara?" And then it just chunks down where if you really, really carefully look at this, you want to have three to five lines of text, not words, not sentences, lines. You need to take your mobile view 425 pixels wide and say, "Wow, a giant paragraph looks terrible." Break things up from bigger stuff at the bottom to smaller stuff at the bottom.

Jesse Dolan: In your example there, that first three lines, that's one sentence. To your point, right? But it's three lines is how it represents.

Keith Evans:

Three lines. Where the next one is technically right on the edge of five lines. And notice how you only have three bullets. Also, what's interesting too, you'll say, "Well, Keith, you have two different action buttons at the bottom." But notice which one do you think I really want them to go to?

Jesse Dolan: The bottom one?

Keith Evans: Yeah. It's much, much stronger popping off the page. One trick I do, I've done this forever, step back from whatever you're working on. Now, and these tricks you can use in your direct mail. You can use in any of your advertising. But step back when you look at your phone or when you're looking at the screen and squint a little bit. Deliberately just get your eyelashes to cover and then really look and see what's popping off the page. You do that in this sample. Headlines, right? High contrast are going to pop off the page. You can also get creative with your language and your words by doing something all in caps. You can also use a first letter capitalized. And that is something that's been tested day in and day out in Google Ads. Get people to think in short little bursts. They're going to slow down and better absorb that information.

You can even get a little tricky and do small cap. Remember, you are battling for people's attention. So, slightly break up the monotony. But remember, the golden rule is clear, simple, concise. It's okay. You can use a little color. You can use emojis. You can use a parentheses, you can do hyphens, symbols, even digits. Here's a little trick regarding digits. If I said, "Hey, something is $10,000." Oh, it could be a lot of money. Make sure when you write that, instead of just saying $10K, you do $10,000. And then you also add the decimal .00. So, now you're like, "Holy crap, that's seven digits." It looks bigger on the screen. There's another trick. You can obviously bold it, make it look bigger, and then you slash it. "Oh, it's not 10,000. It's only 7999." Now, there's no comma in the 7999. You also don't put the extra zeros to the right. It's little tricks like that. There has even been studies that the seven visually looks small, right?

Jesse Dolan: Yes.

Keith Evans: It's a little line and it goes down and that's it. So, some people have been using sevens in their marketing because it looks smaller. And you're like, "That's crazy."

Jesse Dolan: All those little psychological things.

Keith Evans: It's bigger than six. Well, I can manipulate it on the page to make you think it's smaller.

Jesse Dolan: All these that you have on this slide here, Keith, is it's not so much... Some of the other stuff you're talking is the phraseology, the words, and a lot of effort into that. This is literally all visual. Put it on there and take a look at it. How does it present? How does it look, right?

Keith Evans: Yeah.

Jesse Dolan: We're not choosing words here in this slide. And I think this is an area a lot of people will overlook. They just craft it, put it out there. Does it have my keywords? Does it say the benefits? But this is very important.

Keith Evans: And that's why when you look at the sample on the right hand side of the page, you're like, "The image matches the headline." We then get a little emotional raise out of them and then they're like, "Yeah, I don't want to be frustrated." And then we explain more about the product. We give three little bullets that are all benefit. Benefit, benefit, benefit. And then we say, "What do you want? Do you want to learn more or you want to order?" Really, it's as simple as that. That's what your mobile phone experience should look like.

Jesse Dolan: Yeah, that's stellar.

Keith Evans: I could go on and on and on and on and on and on. But if you really think about the logical path of your user, that's really going to help you dictate what do you want them to do. And that's exactly what my company does at UpHero, which is it's like, "Look it, if you're spending money on your ads, you're not as happy or satisfied with your website, or you're like, 'I think I'm spending too much on my website,' certainly go out." You can search my brand, UpHero. And that's where you can get a free analysis. Exactly what I just did, I can do a free analysis on your site. I'm happy to do that for small business owners, Jesse.

Jesse Dolan: Yeah. And we'll link to your UpHero in the episode of this page. Everybody can Google it to find it. There's no other UpHero. You're going to find Keith. And yeah, soup to nuts. Like we were talking before we record, web design, content, SEO, this kind of stuff to convert. You guys can take care of it all. And anything else you want to close with Keith or add on there?

Keith Evans: Not really.

Jesse Dolan: Cool.

Keith Evans: I appreciate the time. Like I said, this is exactly what I do every day. People can invest into search engine optimization, which I do help people rank, but the only reason why you should pay anyone with your marketing is to get calls, to get those conversions. You want results. So, make sure you partner with someone who has your best interests at heart.

Jesse Dolan: Get your phone to ring, get your email to ding, right?

Keith Evans: Someone else had a line like, "I'll get your phone to ring and you do your thing."

Jesse Dolan: Anything that rhymes is good.

Keith Evans: And this is another thing. Oh my gosh, more conversion optimization.

Jesse Dolan: Hold it.

Keith Evans: When things rhyme, people like that. It's kind of sing song. Think about rhyming words in your marketing. I have a guy that does trash can cleaning. I'm like, "what? How am I going to do this?" And I'm like, "Who's the man who can clean your can?" Now, he likes the sense of humor too, but I'm not kidding you, this is a little secret guys, I went to the thesaurus and I typed in the word can. I'm in first grade. I'm thinking of all these words that rhyme with can. And I'm like, "man, Jan, Stan, fan? How am I going to make this work?"

Jesse Dolan: That's crafting. That's crafting, right?

Keith Evans: Yeah. Yeah.

Jesse Dolan: It's with intent. It's for a reason. It's crafting. Because all those intersect. So, Keith-

Keith Evans: Awesome.

Jesse Dolan: ... thanks for jumping on.

Keith Evans: Appreciate your time.

Jesse Dolan: Appreciate it, man. All right, everybody. Hopefully you enjoyed that. There's some great knowledge here in this episode with Keith, just like on the previous episode we had with him, number 129. We'll link to that in a show notes. We'll also link to his UpHero website so you can contact Keith if you're interested in his expertise and the services he provides and his company. I think you're going to find that he'll do a bang up job for you. And again, I really like looking to him, in addition for SEO and his knowledge in those areas, just for some of the psychology, the stuff we were talking about here today. So, hopefully it was a good episode for you. Hopefully you pulled some nuggets out of it, and we'll catch you on next one. Take care, everybody.